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Author Topic:   2nd '66 Mustang
rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 175
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 09-25-2001 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey All,

I don't know if you all remember a few weeks ago I gave my mustang to my dad and a few of you recommended I pick up a cheaper one that I can "hot rod" out and do whatever I want to it without worrying about originality. Well I picked up a 2nd one that's in pretty good condition.

However, I need your guys' help once again. The carburetor is leaking pretty damn bad from the front and possibly the bottom of the 2v carb. There is a 2"x2" plate bolted to the front of the carb that has an arm that the throttle linkage is connected to. Then there is another 2"x2" plate on the front bottom of the carb and i'm not quite sure if it's leaking from there as well.

The intake manifold pretty much has puddles of gas on it. Please help.

Do any of you know what I need to replace? The gasoline fumes are strong enough that they are entering the interior compartment. Please help as I don't want anything bad to happen.

By the way, the car isn't being driven until this gas problem is fixed.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Erik

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Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 203
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-25-2001 10:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss   Click Here to Email Boss Hoss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, Erik:

OK, I know EXACTLY what is wrong with the carb, because I had this same problem a couple weeks ago and it drove me CRAZY. If my guess is correct, I'll bet your car also runs very rough, especially when you take off from a full stop.

Here is the SHORT version of my answer to your problem: YOU NEED TO REBUILD THE CARBURETOR. Any decent parts store has a carb rebuild kit...they cost about $12-$15.

Here is the LONG version of my answer to your problem: The "2x2 plate" on the bottom covers the carb's POWER VALVE (also called an "economizer valve"). These things are famous for leaking and seriously affecting performance if the car sits for quite a while and then is used again. The power valve can't take the strain after not being used for so long. It's basically just a rubber diaphragm with a metal case around it. The 2x2 plate on the front of the carb covers the PUMP DIAPHRAGM, which is similar to the power valve. In my experience, this doesn't usually leak. But that power valve on the bottom of the carb can leak like CRAZY when it goes bad!

Another symptom you are probably experiencing is the car is very hard to restart when it is warmed up, and when it does start it makes a lot of black smoke...another sign that tells you the power valve is bad.

Basically, just rebuild the carb (which should be done to ANY car that has not been used for a while), and your problems should disappear. Don't forget to re-calibrate all the linkages and set the proper gaps for the choke assembly for maximum performance!

My car totally soaked my intake manifold and when I rebuilt the carb (I also have a 2v carb), everything was fine! Good Luck, and feel free to e-mail me if you have any more questions!

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

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Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 5794
From: Pensacola, Florida, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 09-25-2001 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson   Click Here to Email Dave Gibson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Erik,
Glad to hear that you gave your first '66 to your father. Way

Andy hit it with his post above. Rebuild the carb. That should resolve your problem. Power valves are the usual culprit for the problem you mentioned. If you need help with the re-build, you know where to find us.

Dave & Terri

------------------
Poison Ivy
'65 Fastback Modified 289 4V, C-4 w/shift kit, dual exhaust, styled steel wheels, 2.80:1 limited slip rear, rally pac, A/C

[This message has been edited by Dave Gibson (edited 09-25-2001).]

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rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 175
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 09-25-2001 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Andy,

Ok, the car needs to be cranked a little more than usual when it's cold. But restarting the car when it's warm is NOT a problem. The car does not smoke at all, maybe a little when it's cold but not much. It also runs pretty good from a full stop.

The gasoline fumes are pretty bad though. It is really strong from the inside while i'm driving it. I also checked the gas tank and it may have a very slight leak coming from the rubber filler tube connector.

I will wipe the carburetor clean tomorrow and I'll sit and watch where the leak is coming from. I know the carburetor will need rebuilding, i'm just really curious where the leak is coming from.

Thanks Andy and All.

Regards,

Erik

[This message has been edited by rockafellz (edited 09-25-2001).]

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Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 203
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-26-2001 09:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss   Click Here to Email Boss Hoss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rockafellz:
[B]I will wipe the carburetor clean tomorrow and I'll sit and watch where the leak is coming from. I know the carburetor will need rebuilding, i'm just really curious where the leak is coming from.[B]

Hi, Erik:
I absolutely guarantee you that the leak is coming from the power valve, which is located on the bottom front part of the carburetor. That is also the source of the gas fumes you are smelling. If you have a leak at the rubber hose connected to the gas tank outlet, that also needs to be corrected (if you have a single-exhaust car, it's right next to that hot muffler!), but it's probably not the source of the gas fumes you smell.

As for the difficulty in starting that I mentioned, it is not a symptom that ALL cars with bad power valves have...but it is a common enough symptom when there is a bad power valve. Mine had the black smoke and difficult starting when hot (started fine when cold), but that was just MY car's situation. Good luck, and let me know if you have questions when rebuilding your carburetor...I must have rebuilt mine at least 3 or 4 times over the years! I think I could do it in my sleep at this point!

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

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rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 175
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 09-27-2001 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Andy and Friends,

OK, I took a look at it yesterday and have decided to rebuild the carb.

These are the steps i'm going to do to remove the carb...

1. remove the nut the holds the tube that leads to the exhaust manifold. (choke riser or thermostat)

2. remove the accelerator linkage

3. remove the fuel line that connects to the fuel pump

4. possibly remove the rubber hose that conects to the pcv valve. (cleaned the pcv valve)(I think this hose is connected to the spacer though)

5. unbolt the 4 bolts that hold down the carb, and that should be it.

Is there ANYTHING I should watch out for or remove? Also, when I take the carburetor apart, is there anything I should watch out for that will fall out?

Also, I don't plan on fiddling with the fuel mixture screws if I don't have to. Does a rebuild require to mess with those screws?

Anyone else, please feel free to reply as well.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Erik

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richard bohm
Gearhead

Posts: 370
From: tucson,az-luray,va
Registered: May 2001

posted 09-27-2001 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for richard bohm   Click Here to Email richard bohm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
since you should soak the carb in carb cleaner to clean out the passages you need to remove the mixture screws. the mixture adjustment is going to change any way. when you put the carb back together, run the mixture screws in untill they just touch the seats then back them out 1 1/2 turns. this will give you an initial adjustment to fine tune from.

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Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 203
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-27-2001 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss   Click Here to Email Boss Hoss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Erik:
Here are some tips that I hope will help you doing your first carb rebuild. If you have any more questions, please ask!

The hose that connects to the PCV valve is connected to the spacer, so you won't have to mess with it.

You should remove (and soak) the fuel mixture screws, and all other metal parts that you take off of the carb. You should remove ALL rubber, paper, and plastic parts from any piece that you plan to soak. Carb solution can eat those up.

Do not leave any parts attached to each other when you soak them. All the parts you soak should be UNATTACHED to any other part, for maximum cleaning.

When you take the carb apart, watch for a tiny ball bearing that will fall out of the venturi assembly...if you lose this ball bearing, don't freak out, because there should be a replacement for it in the rebuild kit.

Make sure you don't damage or distort the little tube-shaped screen just below the needle valve. The needle valve is a brass unit inside the fuel bowl just to the left of the float if you are looking at the front of the carburetor.

Here's a handy trick I found, but BE CAREFUL doing it: You will find a VERY thin little spring that slips onto the shaft that the float rotates on. This spring pushes against the body of the float. The spring has a very long, straight part that sticks down into the fuel bowl. The wire that this spring is made of is exactly small enough (and that long part is exactly long enough) for you to stick the long part of the spring into all the little holes you will find all over the inside areas of the carb. This will force out a lot of gunk and trash that is hiding in these little passages. DO NOT think that the soaking process gets this gunk out...it doesn't. The holes are too small and confined for the soak to really do a good job. You need to manually push that gunk out. I have soaked my carb twice in the last year and a half, and I STILL found gunk!GENTLY push this wire into those holes, being careful not to bend the wire. DON'T FORCE THE WIRE...just gently push it in and pull it out again. You will be amazed at the gunk that you can get out of there by doing this!

Good Luck!

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

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rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 175
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 09-28-2001 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Andy and All,

UPDATE:

Ok, I went to Autozone yesterday and decided to take a chance and just buy the accelerator pump diaphram for now and see if that would stop the leak. Well, it did.

I ran the engine for about 15 mins and no leak, took it for a test drive around the block and still no leak. No bogging either.

However, there is still a raw fuel odor that I believe is coming from the back. When I parked the car I opened the trunk and there wasn't a puddle of fuel but rather a damp/wet part of fuel near the rubber filler pipe hose and the tank.

Are these areas known to leak? Or is the hose known to go bad or harden?

Also, how would I check if the carb is running too rich? Would a rich carb emit a raw fuel odor?

Regards,

Erik

Andy, Rich and Dave, thanks for the tips for rebuilding the carburetor. I will probably end up doing it one of these days, just so I can learn more. Thanks bud.

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Boss Hoss
Gearhead

Posts: 203
From: Georgia
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-28-2001 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boss Hoss   Click Here to Email Boss Hoss     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rockafellz:
However, there is still a raw fuel odor that I believe is coming from the back. When I parked the car I opened the trunk and there wasn't a puddle of fuel but rather a damp/wet part of fuel near the rubber filler pipe hose and the tank.

Are these areas known to leak? Or is the hose known to go bad or harden?

Also, how would I check if the carb is running too rich? Would a rich carb emit a raw fuel odor?


Hi, Erik:
Yes, the rubber filler hose on the top of your gas tank will eventually harden and go bad, just like your radiator hoses, belts, and other "rubber" parts. Squeeze the hose. It should feel nice and "squeezable" with no hardness or brittleness. Look closely at the hose and check for little cracks all over it, especially around the ends of the hose, which is a sure sign that a "rubber" part needs to be replaced.

A hose is just like a gasket--if it loses its elastic quality, it loses its ability to seal against leaks. I was betting that your odor came from your leaking carb and not your fuel tank. But if your filler hose has never been replaced, you should definitely replace it! My car was doing the same thing as yours until I replaced the filler hose. One word of warning, though: That sucker is HARD to push onto the tank nozzle and the filler pipe! AARGH! PUSH, PUSH, PUSH! In retrospect, I wonder if I could have softened the hose by soaking it for several minutes in very hot water. Has anyone ever tried that?

As for the rich carb, yeah, you can smell SOME raw fuel, but it shouldn't be as bad as you seem to be describing. The best indicators that the carb is too rich are: hard to restart when engine is hot (or hard to start, period!); thick black smoke from exhaust, particularly during restart; and hesitation during acceleration, particularly from a dead stop. Does anyone else have some indicators that a carb is running too rich? That's all I could think of right now, mainly 'cos I'm so tired!

------------------
*andy* ([email protected])

also known as...***Boss Hoss***

*1965 Mustang 289 coupe*
*1996 Mustang GT coupe*

[This message has been edited by Boss Hoss (edited 09-29-2001).]

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