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  What Intake and Carb should I buy?

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Author Topic:   What Intake and Carb should I buy?
MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 89
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 09-18-2001 03:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a 72 Mach1 with a 351C-4V motor in it and I am looking into buying a new intake and carb. Right now it has stock intake and exahaust manifolds on it but I plan on getting headers down the road. I use this car as a weekend toy and dont do alot of long driving with it so I am not looking for fuel economy. I'm looking to get a little more performance out of whatever I buy. I am considering an Edelbrock Performer Intake and Edelbrock Performer 600 CFM Carb. Thoughts and suggestions are welcome. What works well?

By the way here are some pics of the car: http://members.accesstoledo.com/gmyers/mustang/mustangmain.htm

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Clark
Gearhead

Posts: 533
From: Rowlett,Texas
Registered: Aug 99

posted 09-18-2001 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clark   Click Here to Email Clark     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Edelbrock sounds good to me!

------------------
69 351W Sportsroof Deluxe

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 09-18-2001 10:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For idle to 5500rpm, the Edelbrock Performer intake is a good unit, however, as for the carburetor, I'd go with the Edelbrock 750. Just be aware that these come calibrated fairly lean, and will probaby need a jet change... especially once the exhaust is opened up. You'll probably end up with 110's in the secondaries for now, maybe the 113's after you change the exhaust. The manual choke carb comes with 107's in the secondaries... I believe the electric choke carb comes with even smaller jets/metering rods.

For a street carb, I really like Edelbrock. They are extremely responsive, get good mileage, and are easy to tune. Changing jets is no big deal at all. They even come with a book explaining how to go about it.

Just be sure to go with the 750.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 89
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 09-18-2001 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you sure a 750 CFM isnt too big? I have a holley 0-3310 (750 CFM Vac Sec.) which I tried on the stock intake with a 2" spacer. I could not get it tuned to work. If I jumped on the throttle It would hesitate then take off fast. If I slowly eased into the throttle it seem to work better but I could still feel the hesitation at lower RPMs. The motor performed better with the carb that was on it, so I put it back on. The reason I wanted to change out carbs is because when I removed the carb for a leaky accelarator pump I notice someone put a spreadbore carb on a square bore spacer. When I went to find a spacer that went from spreadbore to square I noticed the intake was screy because it had a spreadbore pattern with squarebore bolt patters. What bugs me is that alot of the barrels are covered up right now because they overlap the spacer. Also there are alot of plastic parts on this carb and the choke is broke. The carb is a holley 650 CFM (vac sec.). Even though it has this goofy setup the car runs awsome, go figure. Anyways, Will a new intake make a big engouh change to deserve the 750 CFM carb?

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 09-18-2001 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You shouldn't have a problem with the Edelbrock. It uses an "air valve" secondary setup, which is similar to a quadra-jet. It should not bog. If it would, which it won't, the air valve can be tightened up with a stronger spring.

Install the 750 E-bok and be happy.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 230
From: Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 09-18-2001 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I hate to differ from all the suggestions that have already been made but since I have been down the road and back with my 351C 4V I will throw in my .02... Seeing as how you do not drive the car much then I am sure it will fit the bill as a weekend warrior that mine has turned into Anyway, since you have the 4V heads you are going to need to lean more towards building your power in the upper rpms to get the most out of your motor. Do not even attempt to make low end with your motor with a car as heavy as the 72. I started with a performer and a 650DP and I can promise you will not be happy with the results. My suggestion is to start out right with a single plane intake (Torker or X-Cellerator) with a HOLLEY 750DP and make plans soon for a cam change to complement them. I would hate to see you buy a bunch of new things only to put them up for sale on EBay like I did 1 year after to go buy the right parts to make that car haul...For the 351C 4V the performer unit is JUNK...look at the port sizes on the intake vs. the heads and you will see what I am talking about. I know it is supposed to help with velocity but you are fighting a loosing battle with those heads on the low end side.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2633
From: not where I want to be
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 09-18-2001 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would put a Torker or a Weiand x-cellorator on it with your 0-3310. The stumble was due to the carb having the wrong squirters and/or the wrong pump cams in it.
I am not a big fan of the Edelbrock carbs.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 09-18-2001 09:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess it all depends upon what you want to do with the car...

Do you have a basically stock engine with manifolds... and all you ever want to do with it is add an intake, carb, and exhaust? If so, the Performer 750 Carb and intake will be a good improvement from idle-5500rpm.

If you are going to be building an engine from scratch, or plan on updating the cam, etc. in the future, you might want to give it some room to grow in with a slightly racier setup.

I DID notice you have a 4-speed. That is good.

A good intake for dual purpose work is the Blue Thunder dual plane. This is a HUGE dual plane that won't kill off all your torque, yet still allows plenty of breathing on the top end. As for carbs, as long as you get a good set of headers and use a big exhaust with at least 2.5" MANDREL bent tailpipes (if you use tailpipes at all) a 750 double pumper might be a good bet.

A buddy of mine picked up almost a full second in the 1/4 mile by going from manifolds/2.5" exhaust pipe to the turbo muffs/2.25" muffler shop tailpipes... to cheapo Dynomax headers/3" exhaust/flowmasters/turndowns. It's not -that- loud at cruise, but it will wear your head out at idle. Sounds good, though.

Open up that exhaust, baby!

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 230
From: Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 09-19-2001 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did those sounds on your webpage on the engine and burnout pics really come from your car?! Damn that sounds good! never heard exhaust manifolds do that before

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MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 89
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 09-19-2001 03:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the info. I am now leaning towards MrXerox suggestions because of his trial and error experience with a 351C. I think I will just try to get my 750 carb I have tuned for the new intake I get. I think now with the money I planned on spending a carb I will get a CAM instead. Any suggestion with Cams? Also if anyone else has tried different combinations on 351Cs I would love to hear about what you have tried.

The motor on the website is a 440 Chrysler?Cough?.It just sounded cool. The burn out is not my car either.

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 230
From: Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 09-19-2001 08:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mastiff, what rear gear ratio does your car have? Is the motor origional? I would assume since it is a 72 you have the open chamber heads. You will want the Holley 750 Double Pumper MECHANICAL SECONDARIES for sure. How many miles are on the motor? Many questions need to be answered in order to pick the right cam for your car...By the way, thats a mean looking ride all the more reason to back up the looks

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 975
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 09-19-2001 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you want to build the engine up much more than stock, you'll want to find a set of closed chamber heads to give the engine the compression it needs to work with a decent sized aftermarket cam. Don't forget the matching valvesprings. On this note, you'll also want to get rid of those stock multi-groove valves that have a tendency to come apart with hard use... junking the engine. You'll want valves that use single groove retainers. Buy some good rockers, and don't forget to check the rocker geometry. (mandatory) This is adjusted with different length pushrods.

You might also want to start saving for a good ignition as well. The MSD Billet distributer is only around $160, and well worth every cent.

Be SURE to install a good exhaust!

At least you have a 4-speed and don't have to be concerned with choosing the right converter...

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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MASTIFF
Journeyman

Posts: 89
From: maumee, Ohio 43537
Registered: May 2001

posted 09-19-2001 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MASTIFF   Click Here to Email MASTIFF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was hoping to avoid the snowball effect. (intake to carb to cam to heads to exhaust to igintion to engine rebuild) For now until I rebuild the whole motor I was hoping to just wake up what I had without spending a ton of money. I wasn't thinking about going with a radical cam...something just a little better than stock.

As for the other questions Call this my mystery car.

What rear gear ratio does your car have?
Unknown. There is no door tag on the car anymore and I havent took it apart yet. Can you tell from the Vin number at all? I do know it is non-posi or the cluches are shot. Then again someone could have changed everything too; who knows.

Is the motor origional?
The guy I bought the car off of only owned it a short time and didnt have alot of history on the car. He said the guy he bought the car off of told him it was not the original motor.

How many miles are on the motor?

Unknown. All I know is that it doesnt burn oil and the motor sound really good when running. The oil pressure is still really good. It did have an oilpan gasket blow out the front of the oilpan which I ended up replacing. When I replaced it everything seem tight on the bottom end.

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 230
From: Oklahoma, Oklahoma, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 09-19-2001 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most bang for the buck right now as you sit will be a good exhaust system. A nice set of hooker super comps and performance mufflers would make a noticeable improvement. I used DynoMax mufflers on mine due to the fact that it is a street machine and Flowmasters are not exactly music to most cops or women They are loud when you get on it but very manageable otherwise. If you intend to make this a contender on the street you are going to have to set aside some money to do everything at once. the 351C is a "snowball" motor and there is no way to baby step you way towards the goal. Although these motors are capable of producing gobs of power, there are many factory flaws that need correction. Some of these are: heads need to come off and be provisioned for an adjustable valve train, oiling system problem needs to be addressed, stock valves need to be replaced, entire ignition overhaul, etc... Keep in mind that most every single performance mod you make to a car (exhaust not being one of them) will actually hurt it unless you have the correct combination of other parts to complement it. Welcome to the wonderful world of hot rodding

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 24286
From: Saco, Maine Toys: '70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150
Registered: May 99

posted 09-19-2001 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mastiff, nice Mach!

Jack up the rear and count how many revolutions of the driveshaft you have per revolution of your wheel[s]. There's your gear ratio.

The Performer would be a step down in power. Use a Torker only if you have low rear gears {below 4.11s} or you'll create a bog-0-matic. Trust me.

The Blue Thunder is a good intake, so is the '70 351C 4V cast iron manifold {D0AE-9424-L}, and the Edelbrock F351. Holley is supposed to be re-releasing the old Stripmaster intake soon.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
PROUD TO BE AMERICAN!!!

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