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Author Topic:   power booster conversion
FloJoe
Gearhead

Posts: 575
From: Port Orange, FL, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 08-19-2001 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FloJoe   Click Here to Email FloJoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone installed a power brake booster conversion kit??
If so, Ive heard that you need to do some modifications, what are they?

------------------
Joe Fields
68 Fastback 289ci bored .030 over
C-4
"Never play leapfrog with a unicorn."

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-19-2001 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I changed my '72 from manual to power using factory parts, all I needed was the booster, master cylinder and brake pedal and hanger.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 6677
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-20-2001 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only mod I think you would have possibly have to make would be in the lines. Who's kit are you interested in purchasing? Put power brakes in a 68 and it was the way Steve mentioned. Once the pedal was changed, Pain in the a** on an AC car, it went right together.

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FloJoe
Gearhead

Posts: 575
From: Port Orange, FL, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 08-20-2001 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FloJoe   Click Here to Email FloJoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Im looking at the kit that National Parts Depot has. Say I wanted to put disk brakes on after that power conversion. Would I hafta buy a special disc brake set?

------------------
Joe Fields
68 Fastback 289ci bored .030 over
C-4
"Never play leapfrog with a unicorn."

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richard bohm
Gearhead

Posts: 373
From: tucson,az-luray,va
Registered: May 2001

posted 08-20-2001 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for richard bohm   Click Here to Email richard bohm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the only "special" item you need is a disk brake master cylinder. the boosters are the same.

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Toronado3800
Gearhead

Posts: 832
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-21-2001 02:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Toronado3800     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let me know how it goes FloJoe, pretty soon it's time for me to order the brake upgrade parts for my 68!

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3053
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-21-2001 03:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm ignorant here What's the difference between a master cylinder for drums and for discs?

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 776
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-21-2001 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah I didn't know about this either...
If there is a difference I would just go with the disc M/C since you plan to upgrade anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
I'm ignorant here What's the difference between a master cylinder for drums and for discs?

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-21-2001 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The drum master has equal sized reservoirs for the front and back, and no residual check valve.

The disc master has a larger reservoir for the disc pistons. {they take a much larger volume of brake fluid than the drum's wheel cylinders.} It also has a residual check valve which keep a small amount of pressure to keep the disc piston against the disc pad.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3053
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-22-2001 05:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Steve. Would it be DANGEROUS to have front discs with a drum brake MC?
Depending on your answer, my friend could be selling me a power drum MC for cheap!

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-22-2001 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not really, because 4 wheel disc brake cars use the type of master with two reservoir the same size, but the lack of a residual valve will give you clacky disc pads and short disc pad life.

Don't use it.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1256
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-23-2001 03:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why would the reservoir size matter? Unless your brakes go out, the resevoir need only be large enough to compensate for pad wear.

Do you mean the size of the bore same size?

As far as I know residual check valves are only nessesary on cars were the master cylinder is lower then the brake lines or wheel hydralics, Reguardless of if they are drum or disc. Mustang M/C are higher then both the lines and the calipers?

My recomendation is to get a tandem M/C with the same size bore for front and back and use an adjustable proportioning valve to adjust the rear brake pressure. This system could be used on both four wheel disc and disc/drum. Just re-adjust when you switch from the one to the other.

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 6677
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-23-2001 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I'd have to go with what Ford calls for. I have a new disc brake MC to go in my 68. And, the system calls for a proportioning valve, which I have, but I am going to go with an adjustable prop. valve. I think that what Steve outlines in his 2nd post is right. Opinion

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1256
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-24-2001 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Um, without sounding like a 23 year old punk, I'm pretty sure I'm right on this. I did look into it more incase my memory was wrong, and in all but a few cases check valves are not nessesary, unless the above stated. The exeptions to the rule are drum brakes with cup seals in the wheel cylinders and disc brakes with mechanical retraction, like airharts of the late fifties and early sixties. If you had a check valve in the system your brakes would drag slightly, this would wear your pads very quickly and cost a grip in petrol.

Reservoirs simply provide fluid for the brake system throughout their travel. If the reservoir provides enough fluid for full pedal actuation when the brake pads are worn to limits it has done it's job. The front reservoir can be the same as the rear reservoir or larger. The rear brakes if properly proportioned will displace less fluid thus not needing as large of a reservoir as the front. That goes for disc or drum brakes. The reservoir is just that, a reserve of fluid it does not affect the brake hydralics in any way.

Also, another misconception I keep seeing on this forum and other sites is how bore size affects pedal presure. The SMALLER the bore diameter the EASIER the pedal pressure not the oposite! It's all about mechanical advantage, the easier the work the more room will be needed to get the work done.

Misconseption number 2; "If I use X size master cylinder I don't have enough volume to actuate the brakes, I know this beacause the pedal is squishy."
The way to know if you don't have enough volume for the brake system is as easy as looking at your pedal. Does it hit the floor or bottom out in the master cylinder? If not you have enough volume and look for a problem else were for your squishy pedal!
Not haveing enough volume won't cause a squishy pedal. let's simplify it and say volume=pedal room. If you don't have enough volume then you don't have enough room to actuate the brakes, It's that simple.

Sorry for being a young punk, correct me if I am wrong, god knows it's happened before. But don't, what ever you do, take my word for it and spread misconceptions like wild fire! Read a book, talk to professionals and find out for yourself! While this forum is pretty good, bad advice has been given here and in any case it should be taken as advise not gospel. For gods sakes you could DIE cause some putz doesn't know squat about hydralics! That includes me!
Also, note the above post was in question form because Steve knows his Sh'tuff I was asking if he had just used the wrong word, or got mixed up.
Thanks, and again sorry.

[This message has been edited by SundanceKid (edited 08-24-2001).]

[This message has been edited by SundanceKid (edited 08-25-2001).]

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franklin
Gearhead

Posts: 131
From: VA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-24-2001 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for franklin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Right on Sundancekid. You are right about the residual valves being needed on drum brakes/not needed on discs unless the master cylinder is lower(under the floorboard street rod stuff). Drum brake master cylinder systems do include residual valves which will prematurely wear disc brake pads. Also, disc brakes will require more pedal effort than drums. Drums are "self-energizing" which mean, as the shoes contact the drums, the motion of the drum "wedges" the rear shoe between the drum and the upper pin, giving a sort of assist to the braking. This is why the rear shoe pad is always longer than the front shoe pad. You are safe to always use components off of one car that was designed to work together. By the way, this guy has a booster retrofit kit you can buy. http://www.geocities.com/mustangsteve66/BRAKES.html

[This message has been edited by franklin (edited 08-24-2001).]

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 6677
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-25-2001 12:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Initially, this thread started out just using a power booster and graduated to disc brakes. I am going to preface things by saying flaming is not welcome. Maybe you don't know the definition of Putz, seeing that you have all the other ones in HAND! And spare the emotion about giving advice that will kill people! By the way age has no boundries! I have before me a new, in the box, 68 disc brake master cylinder still encased in plastic.
1. It DOES have 2 different size chambers
2. It DOES have what appears to be a check valve on the side.
Trying not to be cynical, why would Ford engineer a part like this and be wrong. Even in 68, I think they had a handle on hydraulics. The 1968 chassis manual Assembly manual illustrates the braking system. What I said was akin to what is in that manual. And, if I or anyone else is giving fatal advice, it's NOT on this thread. And the location of the mastercylinder, is on the cowl, above the rest of the system. Adjacent to the mastercylinder is a distribution block and then a proportioning valve. On the 67's it was in the rear. Now I don't claim to be a hydraulic expert and that is why I purchased these assembly manuals.. So, some reading has been done....in factory assembly manuals by FORD. Steve is a tech with years of hands on experience and I have no reason at this point to not believe him. My gut feeling is to NOT believe the stuff you are saying that is contrary to what is in Ford publications. Anyway, nothing personal but plese keep your name calling to yourself. On another thread, I called Gary Condit a Putz because HE is one LOL!

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3053
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-25-2001 05:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Erm, I should probably keep my mouth shut, but I didn't think Sundance's post was a flame - just an opinion strongly voiced, and with the rider that he could be wrong.

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sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 2205
From: in the RV, moving soon from SC to VA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 08-25-2001 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ford has engineers that get paid to just design stuff. These guys don't have anything else to do but sit around at a desk and design stuff. I may consider myself mechanically inclined and understand how hydraulics work, but in the end, I figure Ford engineers knew what they were doing and I revert to their design because its more than likely better than anything I could come up with. I get paid to work during the week doing something else and get to play on the car after hours and on weekends.

That being said, if Ford calls for a certain characteristic for a master cylinder for certain brake systems, and I'm changing the features of the car by adding power brakes or adding disc brakes, well, I'm going to go with what Ford specified. It is NOT opinion or advice to say "this is a Ford specification." It IS opinion or advice to say "this is not what Ford did, but I've done it this way and it works, or you could try it this way and it will probably work for you."

Its been my experience that people try things that aren't Ford specification because they are tight on money and are trying to cut corners with what they have available. To be melodramatic about it, that is where you put your life at risk dealing with brakes...cutting corners because you can't/won't wait until you have the money/parts to do it right the first time.

Stick to what Ford specified and there won't be a problem. Period. Steve and Pete both mentioned using factory parts and there is nothing wrong with that.

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Alkraut
Journeyman

Posts: 26
From: Sidney, NY
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-25-2001 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alkraut   Click Here to Email Alkraut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe that all Mustang Disc brakes after 1967 had the dual M/C. The rear reservoir is for the front disc brakes. It is a larger reservior because the disc cylinders will need more fluid as the pads wear, than the rear wheel cylinders. It has nothing to do with the normal service action of the stroke. Ford made the reservior larger because many people don't check the level on a regular basis. Over time, this fluid will be needed to fill the caliper bores as the pads wear. Front pads will also wear away faster than the rear shoes. A small reservior would risk getting air entrapement if the fluid got too low. That is a safety hazard. This is just sound engineering.

Also, the M/C piston bore size is matched to the pressure needs. The cross-sectional area of the disc pistons require a certain presure (psi). The rear cylinders need another. The smaller the M/C piston bore, the higher the line pressure with the same foot force. The M/C would have a larger piston up front, and the smaller in the rear.
This was done to allow assembly...thus the reason the rear reservior operates the front brakes. (I am a mechanical design engineer)

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460-67Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 289
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-26-2001 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 460-67Stang   Click Here to Email 460-67Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I installed power disk brakes on all four wheels on my '67 coupe. Finding a master cylinder for that was a long task, but I eventually got one that works.

For disk brakes, the MOST critical thing to consider is bore size. As Sundance said, you've got to get enough juice to the calipers with an acceptabel amount of pedal pressure and travel. Power assisted M/C's tend to have larger bores, so you need to know whether you plan using a booster before you begin your serach for a M/C.

I found two master cylinders that work for power assisted 4 wheel disk setups: '78 Lincoln Versailles (came with 4 wheel disks....but the MC has port is on the right side which interfered with my 460's valve covers) and a '96 Windstar MC. Yes, a Windstar. It's of the small aluminum design (will never rot and is very light), has ample reservior size, 1 1/16" bore (perfect), and perfect pedal stroke and feel. It also bolted right up to my '67 booster. It required a slight mod at it's end to clear the shock tower. No big deal though.

FWIW,
Brian

------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
14 yr project just completed! Took first place in Tri State Mustang Club 65-73 Modified class!!
'67 Mustang Coupe Restomod, 472 Motor at about 500 hp, C-6 Tranny w/high stall convertor, 9" rear w/3:50 gears and Detroit Locker, Power Disc brakes all around.
---------->>>>> Got Displacement? <<<<<------------

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3053
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-26-2001 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm no techno, but one day I'm headed for four-wheel power discs. There are no Versailles here in the Philippines, but I remember reading "Windstar" on the backs of cars when I'm stuck in traffic. What is it??? A Hyundai people-carrier? I don't care where it comes from as long as it works PERFECTLY!
P.S.: If possible. let me know any info you have on local naming conventions. When I started on Stangs, I thought a Crown meant a Toyota Crown and a Granada was the kind we see all over Europe that bears no relationship to the US Granada.

[This message has been edited by Fastback68 (edited 08-26-2001).]

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460-67Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 289
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-26-2001 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 460-67Stang   Click Here to Email 460-67Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fastback86,
Windstar refers to the Ford Windstar Minivan. It's a rear wheel driven mini van that popular in the US. I suggest you do a web search for "Ford Windstar" to learn more.

Concact me off list if you need help with the 4 wheel disk conversion.

Regards,
Brian Bulow

------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
14 yr project just completed! Took first place in Tri State Mustang Club 65-73 Modified class!!
'67 Mustang Coupe Restomod, 472 Motor at about 500 hp, C-6 Tranny w/high stall convertor, 9" rear w/3:50 gears and Detroit Locker, Power Disc brakes all around.
---------->>>>> Got Displacement? <<<<<------------

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 6677
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-26-2001 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could be wrong, but isn't the Windstar a front wheel drive? I know the Aerostar is a rear wheel drive van.

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1256
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-26-2001 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mellow, sorry if you thought "putz" was directed toward you. It was neither meant as a flame nor directed at you. When I "flame" you it will look as follows;

Mellow, Go with your "opinions" and trust your "guts". Someday when you have a "sinking feeling" and your foots on the floor rushing toward a 300ft cliff.
Don't get mad when the guy at the morg has his own "opinions" about your "guts" and "feels" like he's gotta puke.

But seriously mellow, the only connection to your post and mine, is mine procedes yours and we were both talking about brakes. I was stating the "facts" as I know them, this does not mean I may have had a misunderstanding of the princepals involved and left the subject open to mature debate not a flame war.

I appologize for flameing it is usualy not my style. I am sorry to those who had to read my flame instead of quality information to further our knowledge and enjoyment of Mustangs.
-SundanceKid

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1256
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-26-2001 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mello, can you clarify a few points for me?

In your post you stated:

1. It does have two differant size chambers.

Did you actualy read my post above? or did you stop at "putz" and get pissed and rushed to flame me back?
I also stated that in a properly proportioned system a M/C will have a smaller rear (meaning rear brake) chamber then the front (meaning front brake) chamber because the rear would displace less fluid then the front. This is due to the proportioning valve weither it be adjustable or not.

So what you mean is we agree on this then?

Now to further mess with everyones minds, they can be the same size too. Again restated, if you get you get it, if you don't you don't.
(not directed towards mellow)
As long as there is enough fluid to cover the master cylinder inlet ports and not allow air into the system throughout the pedal/piston stroke at maximum pad wear it doesn't matter what size the reservoir is! And furthermore, as was also mentioned the reservoir are sized over-large in the event the owner of said vehicle forgets to check the brake fluid level. In plain engilsh; It is not nessesary to make the the rear reservoir as big as the front reservoir because the rear fluid volume is not as large as the front.

Mellow, you also said;

2. It does have what appears to be a check valve on th side.

Again did you read my above post?
I said YES you do need a check valve for drum and a few disc brakes with mechanical retraction. The Ford disc system in question DOES NOT need a check valve. If you were to use a check valve you would cause serious premature brake wear and I'd hate to see your gas bill! To simplify it, if you use a 25psi check valve on your system it would be as if 25 psi was constantly being applied to the brakes. If you want to try this out for yourself, drive with your foot rested on the brake pedal, or apply your e-brake with 25 pounds per square inch or force. Drum brake pads are further away from the wear surface (the drum) then disc pads are from the disc. The reason a check valve is used on drums only is because the wheel cylinder seals require a slight amount of pressure to keep them sealed against the wheel cylinder bore.
The 68 M/C you had in front of you had drum brakes right? So it uses a check valve.

So we agree on that point as well?

Remember when I asked Steve if he might of had it mixed up? It was because he stated to use a check valve on disc systems, and that drum brake M/C don't have a check valve. So Mellow you say you saw a check valve? Acording to you you shouldn't, assumeing you still in your "opinion" "think" what Steve said was right.
Also in my experience with early Fords, wich I admit is limited, the brake proportioning was done in the M/C and used a distribution block wich is easily mistaken for a proportioning valve. Like I said I could be wrong, but don't mistake the one for the other or well, as I dramaticaly said you could DIE! The other way to proportion brakes with tandem master cylinders again as stated above is to use differant sized bore for the front and back. With this style system it is not nessesary to use a proportioning valve even, that is unless you want a non-linear pressure drop in the rear system wich is more favorable.

Mellow, do you know the differance from a parts changer and a mechanic? A parts changer changes parts, a mechanic knows why he needs to change the part.
Use all Ford parts by all means! It doesn't hurt to get a full understanding of those parts and how they work too.

Yes, age does matter! When I was the parts manager at Pepboys, Why when a customer walked up did they go to one of my older employees? hmmm? More specificly an older MALE employee?
I have "Kids" my age ask me all the time how I know so much about cars. I tell them I admit I can be wrong, I ask alot of questions (sometimes even if I think I know the answer) and most important read ALOT. Maybe, just maybe other kids my age will read this and know that they too can work on their own cars! I noticed more and more kids pay to have their cars done then to do it themselves and it is a shame because quite frankly they are getting riped off. Sorry to include something personal?

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-26-2001 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for pointing out my error, Sundance. I was GM trained, you know.

Drum master cylinders actually DO have 10 psi residual valves to maintain pressure against the cup seals in the wheel cylinders and overcome retraction spring pressure. Disc master cylinders have 2 psi residual value if, as you stated, the master cylinder is mounted below the calipers to prevent siphoning of the brake fluid from the caliper to the master cylinder.

Now I'll have to drag out my books, but I distinctly remember being told pressure is maintained in a disc system to keep the disc piston against the pad to prevent the piston from being retracted into it's bore. That is why disc brake systems always have a constant slight drag, and the reason some drag racers looking to eliminate wheel drag stayed with drum brakes for so long when disc brakes became commonplace.

I'll look into this further when I have a spare minute. Hopefully no lives will be lost in the meanwhile.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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460-67Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 289
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-26-2001 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 460-67Stang   Click Here to Email 460-67Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MellowYellow,
I don't own a Windstar and never worked on one, so I could be wrong....but I think they are rear wheel drive. Any Windstar owners out there?

Brian

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-26-2001 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My brother-in-law has a Windstar. It's FWD.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 6677
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-26-2001 08:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, here goes. Read your two posts and do not intend to answer all and will try to minimize sarcasm. I'm good at it,too! I'm probably out of the order in what you stated.
You mentioned the MC that I had. The car in question is a 68 cv with fact disc brakes. This car has been off the road for now, 11 years. The original master cylinder was, in a word, toast, and was pitched. The replacement is a replacement Ford MC. It is as I stated and it does have a residual valve or check valve{ you've used both words. It does NOT have an internal proportioning valve. On the 68, it is just forward of the MC and on the 67, it is in the rear just forward of the rear end.{To correct a statement made by someones else, 67 was the first year of the dual chameber MC} As I originally said, I am going to use an adjustable proportioning valve. I have one that came with a Stainless Steel Brakes rear wheel disc brake kit. For the rear, I am doing what Sigtauenus did {see his very good article on larger rear drums}

Now: Yes, I am a shi**y mechanic because I am not particularly fond of grease! LOL! I like assembly, body and fender and painting {no more as the new paints are too toxic} Oh, I CAN do mech things{ I like it right} but I'd rather be doing something else. I have other interests, also. I did do much of the mechainical assembly on my 65, though. After 10,000 miles, I'm still alive! Sorry about that, guy, I'm trying to lighten things up a bit!

To get back to the issue, I still wonder why going in the Ford manner would be harmful. It is a fairly straight forward thing. I look to Stainless Steel Brakes, Master Power Brakes for parts and they follow Ford guidlines with some improvements. Another good company which I know little about is Wilwood. Without being sarcastic, Sundance, why the dramatising about morgues, guts and whatever! If I use the parts that I know are good, and the work is performed by a savvy tech, why would it be dangerous? I have new rotors, calipers, lines, prop valve and wheel cyliners in the rear along with new drums, lining and hdwe.

I do not have credentials to back up my statements but I have relied on the advice of merchants and some people on this site- of ALL ages, I might add! And, in the case of brakes, I traded skills with a good tech. My 68 is going to have EFI/AOD, if I get off my a** and buy the stuff! The person doing it is {hesitate to mention age} a man of 25or 26 who has put blown, bigger V-6's with t-5's in two Ranger PU's. and is currently doing a "secret project" His work is impeccable! Some of the sharpest young men I've had the pleasure to meet are owners of late models in the club that I belong to.

As an opinion, I think that coping to one's age in defense or offense!! in describing a situation/s is a ha*d j*b!! It really can't be taken to the bank! Older people do it, as well as younger. We had a situation where a 17 yr old was WAY out of order and kept throwing up his age! I offer this ONLY as an example. Bottom line, his age made no difference 'cause he still had to take responsibly for his actions. The guy who gave me the idea about the larger drum brakes is a young guy of about 25 and he's a fighter pilot on top of having good mech. skills. Conversely, I am an older person, and I dislike an older person who is patronizing or looks down his nose at others. An older person does have to watch it because it's easy to do. I do know a few things about these cars as I been doing this since 1982, restoring, buying and selling. If I know something, I mention it-certainly not to make myself look good. Being retired has taken that competitive dog eat dog stuff out of this ol' boy!!

I got into this booster gig innocently enough, and I expressed some opinions so I'll have to take ownership of them. Oh well! But, I will take responsibility for them. So anyway, that's it for now, guy and I offer my hand to shake. If you come to the MCA show, I'll buy you a drink! Not the rest of you guys!! LOL!

I hope that someone starts a post, about the origin of our site names, Sundance, mellowyellow, etc. Kid vishus told me about his! as did Sigtauenus! My name is Pete. Guess I,m a bit wordy, and I'm sorry this post was so long.

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1256
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-26-2001 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mello, still friends?

I didn't mean to drag it out so far and I again apologize if I offended anyone.
You have my respect. (not cuz ya offered me a drink) wich after I shake your hand I will gladly accept!

Steve, As far as I know disc brakes do have a slight drag due to rotor runout (warpage) and no mechanical means to retract them. Drums have springs to retract them and old school drag racers prefered the drums because they could back the drums shoes off with the starwheel for absolute zero drag. I realy wouldn't know cuz, quite frankly it was before my time?
At least back then they didn't stick a coffee can on the exhaust pipe and expect horsepower gains!

[This message has been edited by SundanceKid (edited 08-26-2001).]

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