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  FUEL INJECTION FOR A CLEVELAND

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Author Topic:   FUEL INJECTION FOR A CLEVELAND
7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2344
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-10-2001 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been looking into this and most companies just drill an intake and put a throttle body in place of the carb. I want real fuel injection, so I called Kinsler Injection since that's what we ran on our Offenhouser Midgets in the late 60's and 70's. They said they would custom make a polished aluminum show quality manifold with the injectors, volicity stacks, wiring ,DFI, fuel pump and everything I would need. They said if i gave them all the specs of the motor they would do a basic computer set up and the car would run fairly well. Then I would have to take I to a chassis dyno shop about 30 miles from here for the final tuning. Has anyone ever done this and what do you think?. I like to do something different and think it would look high tech and neat on a show car. Any feed back.
Ray the crazy Philly boy.

------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 348
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 08-10-2001 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like too much headache and money to me for something that might not work out for you...

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-10-2001 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it would be awesome! I've often wondered how the 4V heads would respond with a fuel injection set-up.

I've thought of trying the Spyder set-up Coast High Performance sells:
http://www.coasthigh.com/

http://www.probeindustries.com/Fuel_Injection/FI_Home.htm

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 809
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 08-10-2001 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Pantera Performance Center in Colorado already builds a fuel
injection system similar to the one you're interested in. It's
based upon a Weber lower intake with TWM Weber look-a-like throttle
The Pantera Performance Center in Colorado already builds a fuel
injection system similar to the one you're interested in. It's
based upon a Weber lower intake with TWM Weber look-a-like throttle
bodies. I believe they use a Haltech computer. Here's two pictures
of the tall version:

http://www.panteraplace.com/Pantera%20Pics/Dave%20Aument.jpg
http://www.panteraplace.com/images/PP%20Shop%201.jpg

They also make a low version that fits under a Pantera's decklid
(or a Mustang's hood). A friend runs this injection system on his
377C stroker and it works very well. Lots of benefits to true
independent runner induction. Complete systems including wiring,
fuel pump, stacks, air cleaners, manifold, throttle bodies, computer
etc. are priced at $4500 to $5000.

Several Pantera owners have pieced similar systems together:

http://www.panteraplace.com/Pantera%20Pics/Mike%20Trusty%202.JPG
http://www.panteraplace.com/Pantera%20Pics/Fletcher%20Dsc00020.jpg

There's also a place in Australia that does a side draft fuel injection
manifold for Clevelands but I believe the port size is for 2V heads.

Another approach is to cap off a tunnel ram and convert to EFI.
Dick Kock went with this approach on his twin turbo EFI 351C:
Though you might not believe it, a capped off tunnel ram will fit
under a Mustangs hood.

http://www.panteraplace.com/Pantera%20Pics/koch%20engin%201.jpg
http://www.panteraplace.com/Pantera%20Pics/koch%20engin%202.jpg
http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20Info/Koch%20011401%202.jpg
http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20Info/Koch%20022001%206.jpg
http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20Info/Koch%20022001%201.jpg
http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20Info/Koch%20071201%205.jpg
http://www.panteraplace.com/Tech%20Info/Koch%20071201%2014.jpg

Dan Jones

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 776
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-10-2001 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Steve,

I've been thinking about that Spyder Intake myself. My next motor will be a stroked 351W and I was thiking about that one for it.

A friend of a friend had a Kinsler designed system for his big block Camaro. I know this guy had invested a lot of money into the car. I think he was at about $60K when I spoke to my friend but was estimated at about $85K to get it finished. From what I was told it was extremely expensive. I'm not sure if it worth the $$$s.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-10-2001 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those are nice systems, albeit pricy.

The Spyder is a good alternative for only $750, minus the fuel management system.

Ray, what kind of prices are the Kinser guys talking about?

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-10-2001 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I'd spend $1000 for a fuel injection system. Beyond that I'd stick with carburetion.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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Gearhead
Gearhead

Posts: 2173
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-10-2001 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gearhead   Click Here to Email Gearhead     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that would look awesome. I don't know what type of system this was, but I drooled all over it whenever the owner lifted the bonnet: http://79indypace.stangnet.com/cgi-bin/i/images/GT40eng2.jpg
This is the car that engine is in: http://79indypace.stangnet.com/cgi-bin/i/images/GT402.jpg

I like the idea.... something different!!

Cheers,
Ian

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2344
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-10-2001 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They said for a custom made show quality polished manifold whith injectors, stacks, wire harness, fuel pump and lines, DFI, and everything I should need it would run about $5,000.00. They would program it to my engine specs.and it would probably run perfect, but if i wanted they recomended a chassis dyno shop about thirty miles outside Philly to have it dialed in. My friend has a 72 Nova with a 427 and he is very satified.

------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 776
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-10-2001 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You mean without the electronics right? I don't think it would be possible otherwise.

quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
I think I'd spend $1000 for a fuel injection system. Beyond that I'd stick with carburetion.


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Billgear
Gearhead

Posts: 182
From: Concord,CA
Registered: May 2000

posted 08-10-2001 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Billgear   Click Here to Email Billgear     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't know how this setup runs but it sure looks cool! http://www.imagineinjection.com/

------------------
Regards,
BillGear

1966 Coupe
Balanced 302
AFR Aluminum 165cc heads
Custom FTI Cam [email protected]
Weiand Stealth Intake
Hooker Super Comps
T-5 Transmission with 3.55 gears
All the suspension goodies.
www.289mustang.com

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lyle29464
Gearhead

Posts: 958
From: Mt. Pleasant S.C.
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-10-2001 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lyle29464   Click Here to Email lyle29464     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To me a big part of the attraction of owning the old car is "I can make it run" If my new stuff wont run I have to call someone.
fuel injection would put me out of the picture.

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Doc
Gearhead

Posts: 466
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-10-2001 10:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doc   Click Here to Email Doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I rode in a 63 Galaxie with an old Algon (much like a Hillborn but made by Al Gonsales) FI converted to DFI on a 427. It ran great and was done at home except for the welding of the bungs on the manifold, he used an Accell controller and calculated the fuel curve for injector size and pump pressure on a desktop dyno . I'm doing a 427 inch 351W for a client now with the Coast intake and all Holley components, it comes with a program to set it up with a laptop and then taylor it while driving. I didn't think Kinsler had anything for as little as $5000 ! Don't take my Kinsler comment as a slam, his stuff works as good as it cost's, and it works a bunch .

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1271
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-11-2001 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hilborn still has the cleveland stack type EFI manifolds and a few Boss 302 units.
The total cost of going this route will be mighty expensive however. For the money I'd get a strip dominator and a BG Demon carb.
For the extra $4k you can get a lot of beer and pizza.
Having said that I would love to convert to EFi but can't justify the dinero.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-11-2001 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JAAZZY:
You mean without the electronics right? I don't think it would be possible otherwise.


I'm cheap... what can I say?

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

IP: Logged

Pro-T Rob
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From: Monroe, LA - USA
Registered: May 2001

posted 08-11-2001 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pro-T Rob   Click Here to Email Pro-T Rob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I seriously want to take a closer look at the "Spyder" intake setup, but when I view the webpage all of the butons on the right side of the screen are non-functional (just empty rectangles with the little colored box in the upper left corner). Any idea how I might change my PC settings so that these link buttons are properly displayed? Thanks!

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joe
Gearhead

Posts: 522
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-11-2001 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joe   Click Here to Email joe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've wondered about this for my C but now that I hear 5k & up ( ) I think I'll stick to the good 'ol carb. Maybe when I'm 40 or something.
That Spyder intake has a 90mm TB doesn't it?

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42859
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-12-2001 05:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pro-T Rob:
I seriously want to take a closer look at the "Spyder" intake setup, but when I view the webpage all of the butons on the right side of the screen are non-functional (just empty rectangles with the little colored box in the upper left corner). Any idea how I might change my PC settings so that these link buttons are properly displayed? Thanks!

It works well for me. Let me see if this helps:

"Pro Mustang Fuel Injection components have led the world in performance and innovation since back in the day when George Klass built it into the standard by which others were measured. George is still here and still innovating at a pace one would expect from a far, far younger man. Centered around the "Spyder" Intake Manifold series, Probe Racing's fuel injection components are the destination for serious racers.

Choose the components you require from the index at your left and click your way to fuel injection nirvana.

EFI SPYDER INTAKE MANIFOLDS

The Pro Mustang EFI Spyder is a single plane intake manifold designed to make power in the 3500 to
8000 rpm range. This free flowing manifold arrives complete with the exclusive Pro Mustang "Power
Elbow", over-sized fuel rails, and required mounting hardware. The throttle may also be mounted in a
vertical position using the Throttle Body Adaptor Plate. The EFI SPYDER accepts throttle bodies up to
90mm.

Part Number
Application
Price

2101-11594
EFI Spyder-302
$749.99
Buy Now
2101-11949
EFI Super Spyder-302 (5.0L)
$799.99
Buy Now
2101-11595
EFI Spyder-351W
$749.99
Buy Now
2101-11596
EFI Super Spyder-351W
$799.99
Buy Now
2101-11597
EFI Spyder-351C (4V)
$749.99
Buy Now
2101-11598
EFI Spyder-351C (2V)
$749.99
Buy Now
2101-11599
EFI Spyder-460
$799.99
Buy Now


Price Includes Spyder Intake Manifold, Pro Mustang Power Elbow, Pro Mustang Jumbo Fuel Rails, Fuel
Rail Mounting Hardware, Power Elbow Flange Gasket, and Vacuum fitting. (builder to install as required)"

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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