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Author Topic:   NOS???
sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 2180
From: Far East, currently in Japan
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 08-09-2001 02:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why is the term NOS used so liberally when it comes to parts? I always thought that the "N" meant "NEW" as in unused and original Ford.

Its sooo annoying to see somebody advertise in the classifieds or on ebay an "NOS" part I've been looking for (I only get NOS stuff that's not otherwise available repro) only to find that it is only a used part in no better condition than what's already on my car.

Sorry, just venting...

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Doc
Gearhead

Posts: 466
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-09-2001 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doc   Click Here to Email Doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Terms, by people not in the business get misused, like the term "classic car"! I had a guy in a old man tan 64 Valiant 4 door, 6 cylinder, three speed telling me it's a true classic! It's not his fault though, he sees all cars earlier than 1972 advertised as classic in just about any mag or paper. My favorite is "restored" meaning cleaned up .

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 6609
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-09-2001 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ebay-Schmebay! I bought some parts one time {not on ebay} that were advertised NOS and weren't. THey were a fairly hard to get part and the price was fair so I let it slide. Fortunately, they were in ok condition. But as long as I can remember:

N=New as in brand new. NEVER used!
O=Old as in original by mfr. ie Ford
S=Stock as in Stock or original parts

The O could be taken to mean original but the Hemmings definition is as above. Hemmings is where these definitions originated.

Interesting: brg means bearing.
Brg means British racing green.

They show Hp which is horsepower. They might also add HD which would mean HONEST DESCRIPTION!

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 2951
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-09-2001 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since we're sort of knocking around in this ballpark, I'd love a reasonably detailed explanation of what a red oxide part is. I've got the basic picture, but why call it "red oxide"? Has it started to turn to ferric oxide??? Surely not. (Or is that ferrous oxide? I can't remember which one rust is.)

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-09-2001 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just bought Nos tail lamp bezels from a guy on VMF. I e-mailed him many times about the word NOS and went into specific detail. I saved every e-mail and asked if he took credit cards, he said no I do this on the side. He seemed very honest and yesterday I rec'd them and they are NOS and perfect. The reason I did this because if this was a scam I had all the e-mails to confirm and I think this is mail fraud and also if it was a scam I could call IRS, they will even reward you for turning someone in. Or I could have drove to NC and me and EDDIE the other Philly boy could have given him a lesson from THE CITY OF BROTHERLY LOVE. Luckly for him I'm very satisfied.

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1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8

[This message has been edited by 7DMACH1 (edited 08-09-2001).]

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sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 2180
From: Far East, currently in Japan
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 08-09-2001 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 7DMACH1:
The reason I did this because if this was a scam I had all the e-mails to confirm and I think this is mail fraud and also if it was a scam I could call IRS, they will even reward you for turning someone in.

I know if you pay for something with a US Postal Money Order you can definitely charge them with mail fraud, didn't know about turning them into the IRS. Actually, why would the IRS care if its a scam? I mean, I would have thought some department more justice related would be interested not the IRS. Just curious is all.

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-09-2001 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Because doing business on the side would be tax evasion.

quote:
Originally posted by sigtauenus:
I know if you pay for something with a US Postal Money Order you can definitely charge them with mail fraud, didn't know about turning them into the IRS. Actually, why would the IRS care if its a scam? I mean, I would have thought some department more justice related would be interested not the IRS. Just curious is all.

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-09-2001 01:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They don't care about the scam but they care about someone running a tax free business on the side and not reporting the income. They will pay you a reward for turning someone in. I don't know how much I have never done it. Ray PS If the US Postal Service get their way and charges for E-Mail like they want to it surely would be mail fraud.

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1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8

[This message has been edited by 7DMACH1 (edited 08-09-2001).]

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Doc
Gearhead

Posts: 466
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-09-2001 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doc   Click Here to Email Doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fastback68! The big deal over red oxide parts is quality, not from the coating but when/where parts were made and therefore are coated with red oxide.

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sigtauenus
Gearhead

Posts: 2180
From: Far East, currently in Japan
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 08-09-2001 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sigtauenus   Click Here to Email sigtauenus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Doc:
Fastback68! The big deal over red oxide parts is quality, not from the coating but when/where parts were made and therefore are coated with red oxide.

Good call. NOS sheetmetal I've seen was primered red oxide whereas almost all overseas repop stuff is black.

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-09-2001 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's true. I started in the Ford parts business in 1969 and all sheet metal was red oxide.

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1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8

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RICKS
Gearhead

Posts: 341
From: Ocala, FL
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 08-09-2001 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RICKS   Click Here to Email RICKS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll try to give you a brief run-down of "N.O.S." (Gotta be brief, because I'm swamped), but this subject is a very complex one. It is a LOOSELY used term these days, that has come to also include Ford "service parts". The true STRICT definition of an n.o.s. part is a part that was manufactured on the same toolings, by the same subcontractors, that handled original productions for Ford. I use plural terms, because Mustang production was so furious in the 60's, that Ford commonly had multiple tool sets at multiple suppliers in order to keep up with production and to get parts on the shelf for the parts and service departments. Now here's where it gets foggy. As time goes by, a year, a few years, years and years, part # by part # Ford's major parts distribution warehouses start running low on the initial inventories. The actual, true-blue "New Old Stock". Since years have gone buy, Ford buyers may decide to put the part back out to bid rather than simply re-order from the original supplier, only this time bringing tier 2 and tier 3 suppliers into the bidding process. The frenzy is on, often times a different supplier than the original wins the bid, the tooling is moved, and a new manufacturer continues building on the original tooling. Are these parts "N.O.S."?? Well maybe. If the new supplier produces a finished product done to a comparable quality as the tier 1 production pieces, then fine, call it N.O.S.. But often times they win the bid at a number that they can't afford to produce at unless they spend a little less time cleaning up the slag, trimming, buffing, test fixturing, you name it, depending on the part. Case in point, that's why original Ford emblems that were produced in the 80's and 90's simply stink compared to repros. I don't call parts that are being produced somewhere other than the original supplier and to a lower standard, "N.O.S.". I call them "original Ford" period, no more no less. Also the original tooling breaks or wears out with time. The tool is repaired or replaced. Sorry, from that point on as well it's just "original Ford". And ALSO, many times to economize Ford would supercede a bunch of different numbers into one new part #, throw a generic one-piece-fits-all part into the box, and list that part # as a correct application for your Mustang in the Ford parts manual. Case in point is the E4UZ-17618-A washer bottle that Ford tosses at you for 69-70 Mustang applications, but the upper mounting strap is shorter than original and doesn't line up. Not n.o.s.. And there's also instances where the part # stays the same, but they simply throw a generic more modern part that fits and works into the box anyways. Case in point, all the B5A, C5, C6 and so-on electrical parts that say "Motorcraft" on them, like distributor caps. That old part # on the box makes people say, "oooh N.O.S.", but inside it's just a generic Ford service part with no concours value. Most original Ford parts available today, whether still available, or all the stuff that went obsolete a couple years ago, are parts that are being produced on Ford-owned tooling, but 2nd or 3rd generation tooling. You can call them "service parts", or just "original Ford", but the term N.O.S. should be reserved for the older production parts that were made on the 1st generation of tooling. Recognizing true N.O.S. parts is one hell of a challenge, it takes experience. You've got to know your packaging and wrapping. Any thing new that's in an old box that has the "FoMoCo" emblem on it is a dead giveaway to be N.O.S.(except then you've got to worry about whether the part inside the box has been switcheroo-d). Red oxide primer is simply the red primer that was used way back, but I don't know off the top of my head when Ford switched to black. But rule of thumb is that a red oxide part is produced off of 1st generation tooling by the original stamping plant. Good stuff. So, you've got your N.O.S. parts on one hand, and on the other you've got "original Ford", "service parts", or "Ford replacements". Impossible to explain briefly, why was I trying to kid myself?

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 6609
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-09-2001 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You did a great job! Most of the Bob Perkins type specify red oxide on their sheet metal purchases. I've used black primered Ford stuff like Rick talks about and it was good enough for my use.Namely 1/4 panels.

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 08-09-2001 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That was great, thanks Rick!

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 21889
From: Buckroe Beach Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99

posted 08-09-2001 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68   Click Here to Email mustangs68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,
one for the archive maybe
sam

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Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 8708
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 08-10-2001 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson   Click Here to Email Dave Gibson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rick,
Great explination. Thank you for taking the time to share this information with us.

Dave & Terri

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'65 Fastback Modified 289 4V, C-4 w/shift kit, dual exhaust, styled steal wheels, 2.80:1 limited slip rear, rally pac, A/C

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Doc
Gearhead

Posts: 466
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-10-2001 01:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doc   Click Here to Email Doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Rick. This site is great because of people like you that have the knowledge and take the time.

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