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Author
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Topic: Ticking sound(not a lifter??)
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Wulfgar
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: SAn diego, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-03-2001 12:03 PM
   
I am experiencing a strange ticking sound that seems to be coming from one cylinder (or one side of the motor on my 351C. I have hydraulic lifters so i figured maybe one was bad or had something stuck in it. So I went ahead and changed them all in favor of Rhodes variable duration lifters. Cleaned it all up(even put my weiand x-celorator intake(hehe) on. Did a hot valve adjustment after i ran the motor to break in the new lifters. But lo and behold, still a loud distinct tapping. Took the car to my friend at his shop and he thought it sounded like the lifter wasnt pumping up. But on the same side? the same lifter on both sets were bad?? what are the ods of that? I personally think it is something else, I am not sure what though. Any takers?
Nick
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 12:13 PM
What kind of rocker arms are you running?------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8
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Wulfgar
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: SAn diego, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-03-2001 12:41 PM
Oh im sorry, im running comp cam roller rockers, 1.73 ratio
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67Stangboy
Journeyman Posts: 72
From: Lafayette, Indiana
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 08-03-2001 12:57 PM
You ve probably already checked this, but are you sure its not an exhaust gasket leak. Sometimes those will sound like lifters.------------------
67 Coupe
I-6, 3sp
289 and T-5 on the way
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Wulfgar
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: SAn diego, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-03-2001 01:20 PM
i actually already tightened up the headers...funny, a bolt was missing from the opposite side ..lol i replaced it but no, i dont think its an exhaust leak...=)
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 01:43 PM
I had the same problem with Ford Motorsport rockers. They only had about 3,000 miles on them. The trunion in the middle of them wore out. They are total junk. This is the fourth person I know that of that had this problem with Motorsport rockers. I don't know who makes them but they are junk. When I took them off I found play in the trunions. I replaced them with Harland Sharp and solved my noise. Ray------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8
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Wulfgar
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: SAn diego, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-03-2001 01:48 PM
really? wow, so Ford motorsports makes comp cam roller rockers? i was under the impression these are the best rockers on the market. damn, well that was 450$ down the drain i suppose if that is the problem. I dont think it is though because when we changed the lifters we pulled aprt the rockers and the trunion didnt look worn..i mean..to wear after 500-1000 miles...damn..that would be terrible..lol
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 02:10 PM
No, that's not what I said. I said I don't know who make them for Ford Motoersport. Just wanted to pass along what happened to me so you could check that. With the rockers installed you couldn't feel it. I couldn't fugure out what was making the noise until I took the rockers off a second time and felt them in my hand and could feel the play in the trunions. I would tell everyone don't buy these rockers casue like I said I am the fouth person I know that these rockers wore out with very low mileage. Ray------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8
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Wulfgar
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: SAn diego, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-03-2001 02:12 PM
oh cool, sorry, musta misunderstood. : confused: i will go check that out though 
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 02:40 PM
I just happened to think, when you replaced the lifters did you put the rockers back in the same order that you took them off because if you did I would try switching the rockers and see if the noise moves to another cyl. If you did not put them back in the same order then I don't think it's your problem. Did you check the valve quides???
Ray------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-03-2001 02:41 PM
A lot of the Motorsports stuff seems like junk. I bought a 13" air filter, and it had a 'Made in Taiwan' sticker on it.  Their high performance distributor cap has aluminum terminals on it. Junk. I've heard their roller rockers were junk from several other people, too. There were a few other examples I can't remember right now. Ford is letting us down.  ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!
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Wulfgar
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: SAn diego, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-03-2001 03:09 PM
ya I put them back in the same order..they are apart now though so ill go change em and see if the noise changes...and as for the valve quides...that may be it...im thinking i just didnt adjust them right, they may not be closing right....this is such a pain in my *** ..thanks guys for the help
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 03:19 PM
That's the problem with Ford Motorsport you don't know who makes it and if it's junk or not. I used to be a Motorsport Dist. but I dropped it after all the problems and back orders and not making any profit on it. Also they have a no return policy if you don't sell the stuff. The biggest problem is like my rockers they have an absolute no warrranty on everything they sell. As soon as you complain they tell you it's the installer. I have built a lot of rears and when they tell me it's noisey because I don't know what I'm doing is an insult. Don Walsh who now has D&D is the best guy they had and also Ed Lions was good too but don't try to say their products are defective. A friend of mine bought a 9" ring and pinion from me for his car. He is one of the best techs I have ever seen in my 32 years doing this. It was noisey as hell they said no way. When the Vice Pres. of Motorsport came to my dealership I told him that even after he bought a second won same problem. He asked me when this was and I told him 7/98. This was in 1999, he said oh yeah we had a bad batch of 4.56 gears I'll send you a credit. Why do I have to find that out 8 months later from the Vice Pres. I could go on and on but this is why I don't sell it anymore and wouldn't buy it. Ray The Parts Mgr.------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-03-2001 03:32 PM
Wulfgar, are the rocker arms contacting the retainers at any point in their travel?Usually when I have a clicking valve train component, I can find it by touching them one by one as the engine is running. Your hand dampens the clicking one when you get to it. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!
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cpmaverick
Gearhead Posts: 1665
From: Santa Clarita, CA
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 08-03-2001 07:18 PM
Hold on- I guarantee you that its an exhuast leak. If you had to replace a bolt or tighten them the damage is already done. Happens to me every once in awhile, it sounds just like a lifter. Replace your manifold gaskets and I'm sure it will go away.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-03-2001 08:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cpmaverick:
Hold on- I guarantee you that its an exhuast leak. If you had to replace a bolt or tighten them the damage is already done. Happens to me every once in awhile, it sounds just like a lifter. Replace your manifold gaskets and I'm sure it will go away.
quote:
Originally posted by Wulfgar:
i actually already tightened up the headers...funny, a bolt was missing from the opposite side ..lol i replaced it but no, i dont think its an exhaust leak...=)
------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!
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Mark From Detroit
Journeyman Posts: 29
From:
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 10:10 PM
Crane makes the Motorsport roller rockers. They are the exact same as the Crane Gold Race roller rockers except they are painted blue. I found this out after talking to Crane and they said "if they are good enough for Ford Motorsport they got to be good". I think they are junk!
Mark
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unklshu
Gearhead Posts: 682
From: San Bernardino, Ca
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 08-03-2001 11:05 PM
That really cracks me up. Mostly because I haven't bought much Ford Motorsport stuff, but I know a few people who will only buy Ford stuff for Ford because they believe it's the best or Ford wouldn't sell it with their name. Actually it's not funny, but thank you for the warning.joe
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-04-2001 04:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mark From Detroit:
Crane makes the Motorsport roller rockers. They are the exact same as the Crane Gold Race roller rockers except they are painted blue. I found this out after talking to Crane and they said "if they are good enough for Ford Motorsport they got to be good". I think they are junk!
Mark
That explains it! Remember in the Racing forum I mentioned how Crane roller rockers were junk? My friend tried two sets on his bowtie and they were both sloppy at the trunnion area. They must be made from an aluminum/wax alloy! LOL  ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-04-2001 04:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by unklshu:
That really cracks me up. Mostly because I haven't bought much Ford Motorsport stuff, but I know a few people who will only buy Ford stuff for Ford because they believe it's the best or Ford wouldn't sell it with their name. Actually it's not funny, but thank you for the warning.joe
I used to think that way, too. It's hard to believe Ford would put their logo on this stuff. These days you have to look for the best and forget the name on the box. Profit rules, and quality is secondary. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!
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Gary
Gearhead Posts: 726
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-04-2001 05:52 PM
Im hoping what has been mentioned about Crane Gold rockers being junk is false as I have them in my new un-fired BB stroker. Might it be possible oiling problems instead of the rockers? Lack there of will wear any brand before there time
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-04-2001 06:20 PM
Gary, after two sets of Cranes, my friend switched to Harland-Sharp and never had a problem again.I'd chuck the Cranes, myself. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!
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Gary
Gearhead Posts: 726
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-05-2001 08:05 AM
Steve, I can't just chuck out that kinda of dollars having to save awhile just to buy them. At first I bought the Harlins, then I was told from many the Cranes were better and not just beacuse they are more expensive. If they are so bad why are they still on the market. They are suppose to be one of Cranes premier pieces. I will call them myself and question their tech dept. On the other side of the coin I know a few that use them without any problems..humm? Im wondering if those having problems are using the correct lenght pushrods. The optimum is having the roller tip dead center with the valve.
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T5owner
Gearhead Posts: 677
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-05-2001 08:11 AM
Shadetree mechanics guesses:
- One of the front rockers is touching the valve cover oil filler inner inlet cover. Check it or bend it or simply lift the cover to check it out (with a little mess).
- One of the pushrods is not settled properly in the lifter.
- I know this ticking sound typically from the oil pump lever on my old car, when I put it back in the wrong way or it was damaged.
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Gary
Gearhead Posts: 726
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-05-2001 09:13 AM
T5 I had the oil baffle deal with my rocker covers, I had to do some clearencing or the rocker arm would hit the baffle/s.
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7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-05-2001 10:31 AM
I should have known better but being a Motorsport Dist. I saved money, yeah right, I bought 2 sets of rockers instead of one. I think Crane stuff is junk and would never use their products. Harland Sharp is the originator of the roller rocker. For and interesting story read the history of him @WWW.HARLANDSHARP.COM.------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 42139
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-06-2001 02:02 PM
Gary, go ahead and use 'em. Let me know what you think. Next time, though, check out the Crower stainless steel units. I have a set on my 351C and they are the best I've ever seen. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!
IP: Logged |
7DMACH1
Gearhead Posts: 2281
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-06-2001 02:54 PM
WULFGAR, did you find the noise yet. Just curious if it was a valve quide or a header gasket. RAY THE OTHER PHILLY BOY------------------
1970 MACH 1 351C 4SPD
1986 CAPRI 5.0 5 spd.
2001 LINCOLN LS V8
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Wulfgar
Gearhead Posts: 193
From: SAn diego, CA, USA
Registered: Oct 99
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posted 08-06-2001 09:46 PM
well i was told that the ticking was supposed to be ther...its loud as hell..but apparatnly rhodes lifters make a ticking sound? i dunno, i think i may be getting F*^%%D with by everyone. but i have talked to 3 mechanics, and they all said that i just have a noisy engine. im not sure how to check a valve quide though and i didnt ask any of them. all i know is now my oil pressure is dropping radically every time i drive my car. i wrote another post about that one up top. damn guys, im hurtin.
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T5owner
Gearhead Posts: 677
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 08-07-2001 05:06 PM
As I told you (saing lever, but I meant the drive shaft), check the oil pump and the oil pump driveshaft immediately, that is a clear indication, that the oil pump is not properly working.
Probably the shaft is bent or broken and quits function right now.
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kcode
Gearhead Posts: 2983
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-07-2001 11:35 PM
I hate to mention this but, a ticking sound or similar, down deep, can also be a cracked piston skirt. Past experience has showed me this, plus a new set of pistons.Mike
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mach72
Gearhead Posts: 127
From: Bixby, Ok. USA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-08-2001 12:19 AM
I ran rhoads lifters about 15 years ago on a cleveland with good results. The rhoads lifters will tick until about 3500 rpm, then they should be relatively quiet. This is dependent somewhat on oil pressure, and viscosity. I remember that rhoads only reccomended running single weight oil (example sae 30, not 10w-30). Also check your lifter preload and make sure that it is in spec. When I used these lifters I ran a crane hi-intensity hyd. cam with 280/288 duration, .506"/.519" lift on stock bottom end with 2V heads and pulled 14 inches of vac. at idle. The stock engine pulled 15" at idle. Good luck, Tom
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Harley
Gearhead Posts: 129
From:
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 08-08-2001 11:10 PM
I had a similar problem with a completely rebuilt engine the first time I fired it up. Talk about a sick feeling.Turns out the problem was simple. A spring had broken in the fuel pump and the arm was banging against the eccentric. It sounded just like a lifter. New fuel pump took care of it.
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