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Author Topic:   Fuse for trunk mounted battery?
460-67Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 166
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-08-2001 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 460-67Stang   Click Here to Email 460-67Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm installing my first trunk mounted battery system, in my '67 coupe. I bought a kit from Tayler and it appears complete however I don't see a fuse included.

With 2 guage wire running from the battery up to the starter I would think it would make sense to have a fuse on the + cable located at the + battery terminal. If the + cable grounds out I want a fuse to blow, not my car.

Any recommendations? What size would it be? 100 amp? bigger? smaller?

Thanks!
Brian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Site Author, Tri State Mustang Club of Cincinnati, Ohio
www.tristatemustang.com

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'67 Mustang coupe in "restomodification", 460 at 472 cubes and approx 500 hp, C-6 Tranny w/high stall convertor, 9" rear w/3:50 gears and Detroit Locker, Power Disc brakes all around. ETA = July 29, 2001 (TSMC 2001 Show!).

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67coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 229
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-08-2001 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67coupe   Click Here to Email 67coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ive never seen anyone use a fuse on a trunk mounted batt but i have seen a big block chevy truck starter draw 400 amps that is higher than normal but a draging starter can draw alot so go at least 200

------------------
Josh
67 coupe with 351c
87 bronco II on 33's(now has blown motor:(
30 model A currently rustbucket

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 24286
From: Saco, Maine Toys: '70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150
Registered: May 99

posted 07-08-2001 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some install the starter solenoid in the trunk so that the only major cable going forward is the starter cable which is only live when cranking. The rest pass though fusable links before going to their respective circuits

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC {Wife's car...}
All Fords since 1977

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jkilroy
Gearhead

Posts: 1546
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 07-09-2001 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Check the Painless Wiring website for the setup. You actually run two wires from the trunk, one large cable for the starter and a smaller one for the rest of the electrical and alternator hook up. Then a solenoid is mounted right next to the battery so that the long cable is only hot when you are starting the car. The other wire, probably 8ga. or so, IS fuse protected with something like a 60amp.

You are right to be concerned about that long cable. A little fender bender could turn into a major problem if an electrical fire was the result. It may be more work to do it right but its a small price for piece of mind.

------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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mvierow
Gearhead

Posts: 149
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-09-2001 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mvierow   Click Here to Email mvierow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Brian, any car audio installer will tell you, never run more than 1 foot of any gauge wire equal or larger than 4 guage without a fuse. The reason, as stated above, if it shorts, your battery will go pop. Go to a good audio store that caries Phoenix Gold audio parts and buy a circuit breaker for 2 gauge wire and a couple of 2 guage connectors. Mount the switch, cut the wire, crimp the connectors, then screw them to the breaker. The nice thing is, since it is a circuit breaker, you can flip it off whenever you want to work on your electrical system without having to unscrew the thing. Its also nice when your worried about theft, just pop the breaker and no worries. Another advantage is that if it does pop, all you have to do is push a button to reset it. They come in sizes rated by how many amps it will pull, 50,75,100,150, and 200 I think. They cost right around $25.

Mike

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460-67Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 166
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-09-2001 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 460-67Stang   Click Here to Email 460-67Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the info guys. Running two wires is a good idea, but I've already run the 2 guage hot wire all the way to the starter and I really don't want to take it out. I guess I could if I had to.

Mike - That Phoenix Gold circuit breaker is a GREAt idea. I'll check it out!

Question: I'm running a 460 at 472 cubes and 10.5:1 compression. I'm using a high torque mini starter that's supposed to draw a lot fewer amps than the stock Ford unit. Anyone know how many amps a mini starter for my engine size and compression would pull? And what size breaker would you recommend? 100? 150? 200?

Thanks as always gang!!
Brian Bulow

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460-67Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 166
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-10-2001 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 460-67Stang   Click Here to Email 460-67Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I found out that my starter will pull about 250 to 300 amps in order to turn over my 460. So, a fuse or circuit breaker is out. Biggest breaker I could find was 200 amp.

I've decided to use a solenoid on the trunk so the 2 guage wire is only hot when starting, per recommendaiton of this thread.

I have a wiring question though. The starter of my 460 has a built in solenoid like (GULP) a "Shevy". In other words it has a + terminalfor the battery feed and a small wire terminal (+) keyed to the ignition. When the ignition is turned the solenoid engages the starter mechanically and electrically.

Anyhoo, I'm thinking I need to install a Ford Solenoid in the trunk on the 2 guage wire and then run the smaller starter wire from the engine bay to the trunk. This would engage the trunk solenoid and provide 12V to the starter, BUT, how do I engage the starter solenoid?

I'm thinking I can just run a jumper on the starter from the ignition tab terminal to the + terminal.....so when the trunk solenoid sends 12V it engages both the starter motor and the starter solenoid and the starter acts like it's supposed to.

any thouhgts on this idea?

Thanks again gang!
Brian Bulow

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mvierow
Gearhead

Posts: 149
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-11-2001 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mvierow   Click Here to Email mvierow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Try this (I've never done this, so your on your own as far as testing goes)..

Go to the store and buy 15' of 12 gauge or something similar, (2) 2 gauge wire connectors ('eye' style), some 12 gauge connectors ('eye' style) and a good pair of wire cutters that will go through 2 gauge unless you already have a pair. Then follow these steps

1: Disconnect the 2 gauge wire from the battery.
2: Connect a 15' piece of 12 gauge wire to the start terminal on your starter, keeping the one that goes to the ignition attached as well.
3: Run this wire along the same path as your 2 gauge to the trunk.
4: Mount a Ford solenoid in the trunk next to or near the battery. It should be right in line with your 2 gauge wire.
5: Connect the 12 gauge wire to the positive terminal using the eye connectors. Remove any excess wire.
6: Use the excess wire and the eye connectors to run a ground wire from the ground terminal.
7: Use the cutters to cut the 2 gauge wire in two pieces, right where the solenoid is mounted.
8: Crimp the 2 gauge eye connectors to either end of the spliced 2 gauge wire.
9: Attach the ends to the solenoids main positive and negitive terminals. I don't think the direction of current is important here, so thats either the far right or left terminal. (note this does not apply to the ignition connections, since they use magnetical force to create the connection, and reversing the connection will cause the connection to be pushed away, just like reversing magnets).
10: Re-attach the battery terminal to the battery.
11: Attempt to start the car.

This should do the trick.. since the both solenoids are in parallel with each other, both will be turned on with the turn of the iginition, however the 2 gauge wire will only be 'Hot' when the key is in the start position because the solenoid will disable it.

Let me know if that works for you, or if you have any other questions.

Mike

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67coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 229
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 07-11-2001 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67coupe   Click Here to Email 67coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
on the starter hook the small wire that would normally come from the switch to the 2 gauge wire and put the normal reley in thr trunk on the 2 gauge wire when it engagues it will trigger the selnoid on the starter and sent power to the starter motor at the same timeit should work just fine

------------------
Josh
67 coupe with 351c
87 bronco II on 33's(now has blown motor:(
30 model A currently rustbucket

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460-67Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 166
From: Southern Ohio, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-17-2001 08:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 460-67Stang   Click Here to Email 460-67Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the info guys! You've been a LOT of help.

The discussion of a trunk mounted relay makes sense, however I have a question.

How does the battery receive it's charge from the Alternator? Do I need to run three wires to the trunk?
1 - 2 guage for the starter
1 - 10 or 12 guage for the trunk solenoid
1 - 10 guage directly from the Alt to the the battery for charging purposes? (and what size fuse would I use on the charging wire....I do need a fuse there, correct?)

Thanks again!
Brian

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