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Author
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Topic: EFI?
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Stang28965
Gearhead Posts: 450
From: Webster New York USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-24-2001 12:24 AM
   
.[This message has been edited by Stang28965 (edited 05-25-2002).]
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-24-2001 02:01 AM
Your car will run better and will probably perform better if you have it tuned correctly but I don't think you'll have more power. You will also need a wiring harness or will need to make one yourself. I don't know what the computer costs. They also have some aftermarket computers that can be configured any way you like. I plan to go this route eventually when I eventually go with a power adder(turbo or blower).
quote:
Originally posted by Stang28965:
Can i add this to my 289??? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=592562299&r=0&t=0It would run better and give me a lot more hp right? Also how much does a computer run? This looks like a pretty nice set up he is selling. -Jeff
1965 Mustang
[This message has been edited by JAAZZY (edited 06-24-2001).]
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richard bohm
Gearhead Posts: 373
From: tucson,az-luray,va
Registered: May 2001
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posted 06-24-2001 03:23 AM
adding efi is not a magic bullet. computers go for 600.00 and up depending on the make. you will also need all the sensors, fuel pump, clean the injectors... all this adds up. you might spend 250.00 for the set up you see but when all is said and done you may spend more than 1500.00 to set it up and tune it. and even then you wont realize the hp gains you seek.
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mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 6609
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-24-2001 07:53 AM
I've been sitting on the fence for a spell re EFI talking myself in and out of doing it on a 68 cv. I passed on one opportunity that was pretty good. My plan is to take the carbed roller 5.0 with B303 cam, etc. that is currently in my 65 and use that as a base. I have a question. What is the advantage/disadvantage of using the serpentine setup. One person who will remain nameles said "the serpentine setup will give you more bragging rights at cruise night!" I have planned on using AOD, of course, and run the fac ac and power steering. My understanding is to be careful re harnesses and computer so as not to get a mix and match situation-differences between auto and 5 spd.The more I think about it, the more I might just put in the AOD and call it a day. Currently, the car has a 3:25 9" open rear. I would like to travel to some events, etc. that are far from home. ANy comments,suggestions appreciated.
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 865
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-24-2001 12:12 PM
for the money and headache involved, I'd go with the Holley Pro Jection kit.
I don't remember who it was now, but I was discussing it with an M&M member that has one of the early model kits.
its a 4 bbl fuel injection throttle body, not quite as good as true multipoint fuel injection, but better than a carb, its on my "to do" list.
the high end model has a connection to plug it into a computer or something like that, its tunable via computer and its suppose to have different settings.
imagine driving to the track using a setup that is efficient as hell, 14:1 air/fuel, change one setting and run all out at the track, still get 25mpg on the way home.
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Billgear
Gearhead Posts: 182
From: Concord,CA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 06-24-2001 05:01 PM
I think that is a Ford Explorer intake, while
it flows OK, It may be a little tall to fit in your engine compartment. Might want to get
some dimensions before bidding!Regards,
BillGear
www.289mustang.com
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66 coupe
Gearhead Posts: 234
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Nov 99
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posted 06-24-2001 05:25 PM
Just adding EFI may not add HP, but if you add the EFI roller cam it will be a huge leap in power over any stock 2 or 4 bbl 289. The improvement in driveability and fuel mileage alone usually make it worth it. A late model Mustang will run with (and, flame suit on, usually outrun) a stock K-code and still deliver better gas mileage, with a smooth idle and instantaneous starting. The drawback is cost. You can buy a lot of carburetors for what an add-on port EFI will cost. ------------------
Jack Collins
'66 coupe
250 Crossflow / T-5
Click here to visit the Mustang Six website!and
The Ford Six Performance Forums
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joe
Gearhead Posts: 522
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 06-24-2001 08:26 PM
That looks like a '95 EFI setup and a reg one at that. I have one of those in my back yard collecting dust.
The 302 sitting in my car was an EFI motor. I bought it complete for $500 and ripped all the EFI stuff off and used my old parts. At the time I didn't have enough money for the wiring harness, like $600 from W.Fox, or the missing computer. The cheapest one I found was $400. Eventually I'm going to rebuild the 302 and go with a GT40 setup.
The only downside is that I won't be able to pull out a screwdriver to get the car moving should I ever have a prob.
Also, I think that guy was smoking something when he made that ad, $250 seems kind of steep for that stuff.
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joe
Gearhead Posts: 522
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 06-24-2001 08:29 PM
Another reason for saving money to make the swap, cold starting. There are those days when I have to warm her up for quit a while so she won't stall on me at a light. 
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Stang28965
Gearhead Posts: 450
From: Webster New York USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-24-2001 09:34 PM
.[This message has been edited by Stang28965 (edited 05-25-2002).]
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 865
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-24-2001 10:36 PM
sweeet!
I just might have to look at that...
what model is it? 4d or 4di?
I think thats the model names...
anyway, one is simple adjustment knobs, it can be adjusted faster, but not as precise. the other can link to a serial port or something, its been awhile since I read up on it.
got a url or anything for the $700 system?------------------
74 Mercury Comet
302, Performer 289 intake, Holley 600, Hooker Super Comps
AOD
3:1
http://members.tripod.com/red74merc
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Stang28965
Gearhead Posts: 450
From: Webster New York USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-25-2001 06:19 AM
The part # at summit is HLY-502-20S
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=Department.asp?d=18
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-25-2001 11:45 AM
Hey guys that's me with the Holley Projection. I have the early 970CFM unit. I like it a lot. I have no complaints. My car became so much easier to live with. I tried a couple of different Holley Carbs before this and it is much better. I can't speak about performance other than experience because I never did any before and after comparisons. I do know that my car was able to do 168mph running the Silver State in completely street legal form(timimg, fuel) with a 289 and that speed was gear limited!
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ToddStyles
Gearhead Posts: 141
From: Memphis, TN USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-25-2001 01:44 PM
I'm running any early 2 injector version on my car right now. It works great. I believe it's right in the 670cfm range, I don't remember exactly. Cold start is a definite advantage. If someone is interested, I'm going back to an autolite 4100. I'm looking for a more retro style and picked up a 4100 for a decent price. I'll be selling the setup as soon as the carb is rebuild and installed. You can reply here or to me email address: [email protected] My email is down right now and will be a couple more days. (gotta love exchange..NOT). Anyway, it will be "for sale" soon. I'm looking at $450 for the complete setup, shipping included. Everything you need but the return fuel line. Todd. ------------------
1965 2+2 GT, A-code 289 w/351 heads, T-5, 9" Versailles w/4.11 t-lock. Holley Pro-jection.
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 865
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-25-2001 03:21 PM
looks good, but I'm wondering if its cfm is measured at 2bbl specs or 4bbl specs...
either way, its good, but you notice its rated up to 275hp, thats why I plan on the 4bbl setup, it may be more than I need, but I won't outgrow it.
apparently Holley isn't going for a CARB certification on it tho...
doesn't apply to most of us... it would be silly to try to enforce it, it WILL run cleaner than any carb...
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 865
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-25-2001 03:43 PM
doh...
looks like I waited too long...
apparently the only 4bbls available now have to be built, and start at 1000cfm...
I dunno what I'm gonna use... but I intend for over the 275hp the 670 is rated at...
I may talk to Holley and see if the 670 can be upgraded or something, thats plenty of cfm for a 302, may be the injectors that are low duty units...
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-25-2001 03:53 PM
I've wondered how they figure out the cfm as well. Since I'm in the process of swapping motors I'm hoping that my 4 injector unit can supply the fuel my combo needs. I was hoping that it's as easy as swapping the injectors for for some larger ones. Since you guys haven't yet purchased a system I would say wait. Edelbrock is coming out with a setup with manifold and port EFI. It looks promising. Give them a call and ask about the msrp and release date. I will most likely sell my setup down the road when I go with a power adder. At that point I think I'd like port injection and the capability to adjust every parameter.
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 865
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-25-2001 04:32 PM
Stang28965
If you haven't seen the Holley page...
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSFI/502-20S.htmlJAAZZY, keep in touch... I want the headroom that will give me, preferably at a lower CFM tho... 970 is a tad much for a warm 302...
I am wondering about that 1000cfm kit tho...
can you get a restrictor or smaller base plate?
is the base plate removable JAAZZY?
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Stang28965
Gearhead Posts: 450
From: Webster New York USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-25-2001 04:35 PM
.[This message has been edited by Stang28965 (edited 05-25-2002).]
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-25-2001 05:46 PM
I don't think that would help since all 4 injectors are going at the same time. It would probably end up running rich if you didn't swap out the injectors or go with a smaller unit. What you might be able to do is contact Holley and find out if the computer and wiring is the same. If it is then just buy the 4 injector unit and buy the plate for the two injector unit seperately for and add the parts from your 4 Injector piece. Might work."Thanks for all the info, But if this is 670CFM and my carb now is 600CFM does that mean my carb now can handle more then 275hp? it does not seem right.." I would say that yes your 600CFM carb can handle more than 275hp. I did not dyno my combo but I believe it had at least that much power based on how bad I would beat my friends 87 5.0 LX(the light one). He had exhaust mods and minor bolt-ons. I could beat him from a stop a roll and stomp him on the freeway. His engine was 225hp(pre mod) I believe. I had midly ported stock heads at the time. I'm just guessing but it sounds realistic. I think Holley has a flow vs. engine size vs. rpm chart on the back of the carb boxes. You may want to check their website for a little info.
quote:
Originally posted by 74merc:
JAAZZY, keep in touch... I want the headroom that will give me, preferably at a lower CFM tho... 970 is a tad much for a warm 302...
I am wondering about that 1000cfm kit tho...
can you get a restrictor or smaller base plate?
is the base plate removable JAAZZY?
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 865
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-25-2001 06:04 PM
JAAZZY, I hadn't forgot, I'm sure I can get the fuel delivery lowered to what I need one way or another, but to keep it from losing all vacuum right after you hit the throttle... either I'd adjust my throttle linkage where it wouldn't open all the way or try to minimize the amount of air coming through there.
1000cfm is roughly twice what I'll need... 670 would do fine, but I like 4bbls...
honestly, I'll probably go with the 670 sometime soon, seeing as its so cheap now...
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ToddStyles
Gearhead Posts: 141
From: Memphis, TN USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-25-2001 10:02 PM
For my setup, the 2-injector version was plenty. I'd venture to guess the 275HP limit was conservative. I'm running a 289 standard bore, milled '69 Windsor heads, C9OX intake, 1 5/8 hooker headers and a full Mallory unilite ignition. The cam is another ford muscle part, with 270 duration and 490 lift (I think... it's been a while). Anyway, I had to crank the fuel regulator down as far as it would go. It dumps plenty of fuel. If I kept the pro-jection, I'd insulate the fuel pump (mounted at the tank and a little loud). But for sheer ease, it starts up first hit. Turn the key and let the fuel pressure pump up... when the pump starts, hit the starter. As far as preferring 2 injector to 4 injector setups, the only difference is the number of injectors thus increasing CFM. Either way, it's a step between a carburetor and full port injection. Todd.------------------
1965 2+2 GT, A-code 289 w/351 heads, T-5, 9" Versailles w/4.11 t-lock. Holley Pro-jection.
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ToddStyles
Gearhead Posts: 141
From: Memphis, TN USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-25-2001 10:31 PM
I missed on the cam specs.. It's a C9OZ cam w/ 290 duration and 470 lift. My wife dug out my old muscle parts catalog reprint. Good reading for those who haven't seen one. The price list is interesting. The one is from '69. Todd. ------------------
1965 2+2 GT, A-code 289 w/351 heads, T-5, 9" Versailles w/4.11 t-lock. Holley Pro-jection.
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 865
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-26-2001 12:11 AM
so the 670 was more than enough, huh?
to you and JAAZZY, how is the control unit?
how adjustable is it?
would we be better off with the full digital unit?
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-26-2001 01:00 AM
I would say it is plenty adjustable for a mild to medium setup. The direction I'm headed now though with a less daily and slightly wilder setup I'd like the added adjustability of the new systems. It still works well but I bet with more adjustability I could squeeze out more mid rpm HP and Torque. As soon as I get my motor running again I'll post here with my impressions and then I'll post again after I put it on a dyno. It should be soon as the old motor is out and the new one is done. The motor it was on was a 289 with a reg Hyd cam. The new one is a 342 CI stroked 302 with a Hyd Roller.
quote:
Originally posted by 74merc:
so the 670 was more than enough, huh?
to you and JAAZZY, how is the control unit?
how adjustable is it?
would we be better off with the full digital unit?
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-26-2001 01:01 AM
Oh yeah... JAAZZY is my plate, name is Jas. Cya
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Stang28965
Gearhead Posts: 450
From: Webster New York USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 06-26-2001 09:38 PM
.[This message has been edited by Stang28965 (edited 05-25-2002).]
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JAAZZY
Gearhead Posts: 772
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-26-2001 10:44 PM
Yup, it did for me. quote:
Originally posted by Stang28965:
The EFI will also cut down on the smell of fumes right? thanks again-Jeff
1965 Mustang Coupe
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ToddStyles
Gearhead Posts: 141
From: Memphis, TN USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-26-2001 10:49 PM
670cfm is more than enough for most small blocks. My unit has an adjustable fuel pressure regulator located on the carb-looking assembly. Also, the computer has five adjustments on it with thumb screw type adjusters. They are for the choke, accelerator pump, idle, mid-range and high rpm. There is also a switch inside the computer for small or big block. Not really sure what effect that has. Overall, a pretty nice setup. Todd.------------------
1965 2+2 GT, A-code 289 w/351 heads, T-5, 9" Versailles w/4.11 t-lock. Holley Pro-jection.
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