I will be using the late model bell-housing and a hydraulic clutch kit to operate the fork and thus will use a diaphram clutch. Future plans for engine would be around 350HP. Plan to continue to run 14" tires and will put in a 31 spline posi unit this fall that I have laying around. Rear gear will be changed at this time to give me a cruise RPM of around 2000 at 60 mph in 5th. Car is street driven only, maybe 2-3000 miles a year.

I am aware that the stock T-5 maybe a little under-rated on the torque but I'll have to find out for myself in the future. I don't expect to be attempting hard launches given the nature of the car and 351C-4V thus I don't think I need a serious clutch. I am thinking of one step up from the stock replacement clutch such as a heavy duty street (depending on clutch manufacturer).

I don't think Centerforce is in the plans for me, does anyone have comments on brands such as Hays or Ram? I will need to order a Hays steel flywheel already, I am wondering if anyone has any reason why I shouldn't order a Hays clutch kit also?

Thanks for any thoughts,
Ken

This is essentially why I posted the question: Is not a Hays or Ram just as good a choice for my application or is Centerforce that much better?

Right now I am thinking that "street duty" or also known as "heavy duty" clutch would fit my requirements. And if so, it seems that the Hays, Ram, or Zoom clutches are a little less money than the Centerforce. I have not yet done extensive price comparisons and will do this after I get a few opinions. I will always spend extra money where ever it will pay off but as with everything I want to match all components as best I can so everything works well together and not waste money on anything that is over-kill.

Ken

Richard, I am planning to buy a billet steel flywheel because it will have the dual pattern. If I buy a salvage yard unit then I limit myself to the 11" pattern and I still need to get it resurfaced. New seems to be the way to go here.

Thanks for the feedback.

I've been using a McLeod dual friction clutch now with my Tremec and its been doing a great job. Oh ya, its also lasted longer than 5000 miles!

If I wasn't so happy with the McLeod, I'd probably run the Centerforce.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan Wilke:
Isn't the 'rule-of-thumb' that smaller motors have less torque so give them more gear?

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The smaller the engine and the heavier the car... the more gear it needs to get moving.

I've always launched the car WFO... Wide F*****g Open. It's always been launched wide open at redline. The small engine seems to need all the rpm and gear it can get. A 2-step rev limiter is a god-send here... HIGHLY recommended on a stick car! The willingness to find those pesky weak links in the drivetrain is also a good plus.

Of course, a small shot of nitrous really takes the bog out of a holeshot.

Get a tie-down strap, chain, or cable for the drivers side of the engine. It gets torqued on VERY hard when launching on slicks.

For the hardest launches with a fast/heavy car, and especially 4-speeds, avoid..

1. 2-pinion traction lock rears (8" or 9")
2. 28 spline axles (especially those that came in the 57-59 fords)
3. Some standard 9" carriers (thin caps that the middle will break out of)
4. Stock 57-59 housing need the spring perches boxed (very weak perches). For really hard duty, the housing itself kind of on the weak side. I tweaked a couple out of shape before buying an aftermarket one.

Good Luck!

n2oMike,
I also appreciate your pointers You mentioned, "A 2-step rev limiter is a god-send here... HIGHLY recommended on a stick car!" I guess I should learn just what those babies are, how they work and what they can do for me.....

I'd like to think I have, "the willingness to find those pesky weak links in the drivetrain", but I'd like to weed out as many potential 'weak links' by listening & reading other folks experiences rather than breaking it to find it -- you know, change it out BEFORE it breaks....

I've got your recommended engine tie-down strap on the drivers side installed - it ended my clutch linkage from binding up.

Regarding your recommended list of things to AVOID when launching a fast/heavy car, with slicks & a 4-speeds, here are my responses:

#1. I have a 9" full spool
#2. I have 31-spline Moser axles
#3. It's a "N" case
#4. Too late, I collapsed mine two seasons ago - twisted everything into a giant pretzel. Now the NEW perches on my '69 (small bearing) housing are boxed. No problems since.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan Wilke:
Rory,

It leaves straight, but NO noticable weight transfer is happening. I have installed the 5-way adjustable Rancho shocks recommended by Calvert, in preparation from his bars. Before the new rear shocks, the car launched best (no spin) with 20# in the 9" slicks; 1.80 60'ers. Since the new shocks, I'm spinning the slicks. Last time out, I adjusted my pressure in 2# steps from 20# down to 14# and they still spun.... any suggestions?? I'm
Ryan

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I've now got the same setup... Cal-Tracs and Rancho shocks. (Well, I'm going to ladder bars and mini-tubs, so the Cal-Tracs and shocks are for sale) Those shocks can be adjusted pretty stiff. I found they worked best at full soft (#1 setting).

Some sort of slapper bar, be it Cal-Tracs or whatever are mandatory. Set up properly, the rear of the car will actually RISE on launch. The slapper bar (which is attached to the axle) pushes UP on the body. This drives the axle DOWN into the pavement, planting the tires.

A good set of these traction bars (that bolt directly to the housing with the big U-bolts) will do wonders. Don't use the "cheapies" that just clamp to the springs.

My best 60ft ever came with a set of this type of slapper bar and a 28x9 MT slick... launching on nitrous. It was a 1.43 The car launched just as hard, and more consistently on a 26x10 Hoosier. It's best 60ft then was a 1.46, but that was with only a 150hp shot, instead of the 200hp jolt that produced the 1.43. Off the bottle, the car regularly 60fts in the mid 1.6's. Without the bottle, there is very little to zero spin launching at redline (6800-7000rpm) These are all with a 2.78 first gear and a 4.33 rear. The 26" tire worked best for me off the bottle. The 28" wants to bog a little... but those nitrous launches -will- spoil a person.

I didn't see any significant improvement with the Cal-Tracs over the slapper bars. They didn't do any worse... Make sure they work freely and don't bind up. Your mileage may vary.

Be sure to install the battery in the trunk, if you haven't already done so.

GET A 2-STAGE REV-LIMITER!!!!
These allow you to switch between two different rev limits. The car normally operates off the regular rev limit, but while a button is pushed, the rev limit is switch to a new "launch" setting. This allows you to press the button, floor the throttle, and have the revs just come up to your "launch" rpm... all the while having the throttle flat on the floor! When you go to take off, release the button, and blast off!!! This makes launching MUCH easier, and allows the car to take off with the throttle WIDE open. It makes for a really fun time.
If you have a MSD 6AL, the little 2-step box is only around $60, and worth every penny. If you have the MSD Digital 6+, it's built in! Other ignition companies offer 2-step boxes for their boxes as well. Call their tech line for a complete rundown. WOO-BAHHH!!!

Traction ON the bottle with my car is spotty at best. Sometimes the track is perfect and freshly "glued" with VHT, all the stars are in the right places, the temp is perfect, and the car just LEAPS out of the hole! Other times, it just takes off spinning, and bounces it way all the way through first gear. THIS is why I'm mini-tubbing the car. Maybe a 29x11.5x15 slick will make the world a happier place, when properly supported by Koni coil overs and ladder bars.

Good Luck!

I have the Mallory IVc box with (I think) has "two rev limiter stages"... Again, if I'm recalling correctly, the directions explained as, "..one limit for the burnout and one for the pass". I'm pretty sure there wasn't any "button" included or discussed. I guess I'll have to locate the directions that came with the box and read them again.

You mentioned, "This allows you to press the button, floor the throttle, and have the revs just come up to your "launch" rpm... all the while having the throttle flat on the floor! When you go to take off, release the button, and blast off!"

....nevertheless - so on the 2nd yellow, I'd push the button mash the go pedal, and on the last yellow (launch time), you release the button (which is holding back the motor at the set revs)and release your clutch; all the while holding the accelerator to the floor!??

quote:

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Originally posted by n2oMike:
Of course, a small shot of nitrous really takes the bog out of a holeshot.

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Mike, if that shot is small, can we talk about large shots?

------------------
Marcus
My World
``Two cars hitting the barriers is not an ideal way to finish the first day of practice for a Grand Prix,'' - Patrick Head

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan Wilke:

You mentioned, "This allows you to press the button, floor the throttle, and have the revs just come up to your "launch" rpm... all the while having the throttle flat on the floor! When you go to take off, release the button, and blast off!"

....nevertheless - so on the 2nd yellow, I'd push the button mash the go pedal, and on the last yellow (launch time), you release the button (which is holding back the motor at the set revs)and release your clutch; all the while holding the accelerator to the floor!??

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Yes, and Yes...

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan Wilke:

I have the Mallory IVc box with (I think) has "two rev limiter stages"... Again, if I'm recalling correctly, the directions explained as, "..one limit for the burnout and one for the pass". I'm pretty sure there wasn't any "button" included or discussed. I guess I'll have to locate the directions that came with the box and read them again.

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If it is set up for two different rpm limits, one will be the normal limit, and the other (launch) will be activated by a wire coming out of the box.

When power is applied to the "activating wire", the box will switch to the (launch) rev limit. When the power is switched off, the limit will go back to normal.

A button is normally used to turn the power to the wire on and off.

Your instructions will tell which wire this is. The box probably has little dials to set the rpm limits.

Have Fun!

quote:

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Originally posted by Greenstang:
Mike, if that shot is small, can we talk about large shots?

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It really doesn't take much nitrous to really make a huge difference in a holeshot. A 100hp hit of the fun stuff will make you a believer.

Nitrous kind of follows the law of diminishing returns... You get a LOT more improvement out of that first 100hp than the second. Spraying harder and harder gives less and less improvement... but DOES get tougher and tougher on the engine.

You'd be surprised at what a 100hp shot of the funny stuff activated right from the starting line will do for a holeshot and ET. Just make sure it's tuned correctly, or you'll either get lackluster results or possibly hurt something.

If you want tuning tips, just say so... Over the last 8-9 years I've had lackluster results and a few hurt parts (at first),learned from it, then had good results. (Head gaskets are fragile things on 302's due their 10 measly 7/16" head bolts)

The last engine lasted several years with a stock crank, rods, block (no girdle) spraying bottle after bottle through it 200hp at a time... while pushing the 3300lb turd close to 130mph wheezing through a set of 289 heads.

It used to run like that using 150hp, but as the engine got more and more miles on it, the nitrous needed bumped up 50hp to account for wear.

Good Luck!