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  Trick Flows on a 289

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Author Topic:   Trick Flows on a 289
cali289
Journeyman

Posts: 8
From: Davis, CA
Registered: May 2001

posted 05-10-2001 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cali289   Click Here to Email cali289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Been reading the boards here for a month or so, and it is definitely
the best place I've seen for classic mustang advice, hands down. Hopefully
I can contribute after I get further along in my project. ;-)

Now my question. I'm going to be rebuilding the tired old 289 2v in my '65,
and replacing just about everything but the block, and was thinking about
putting on TFS Twisted Wedge heads. The flow numbers are fantastic, and
the price isn't that bad. I also like not having to notch the pistons,
so I could get better compression even with the large valves.

Has anyone here seen these heads? In a 289 application? What obvious
problems/costs/downsides am I overlooking?

Any and all thoughts on the topic are appreciated. ;-)

--Matthew

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8796
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-10-2001 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Matthew,

Welcome to Mustangs & More! Glad you joined in the fun. I don't have any personal experience with the twisted flow heads, only Edelbrock performer rpms, and Windsor jr/sr's. Several of our members run them and they like them. So go for it! Be prepared to spin that 289 to 6500 or so to get the most out of those flow rates though. In other words, roller rockers and maybe a solid lifter cam, and a Performer rpm intake.

SteveW

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cali289
Journeyman

Posts: 8
From: Davis, CA
Registered: May 2001

posted 05-10-2001 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cali289   Click Here to Email cali289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,

Thanks, I'm having a really good time working on my car, and a site like this makes it even better.

You make a good point about having to spin up pretty far to fully utilize the TFS heads. I am aiming to build an engine I can shift at 6500... though it would be nice to maintain a *decent* amount of pull at 2500-3500 RPM.

I'm already planning on a roller-rocker valvetrain, and definitely am going to be using the Edlebrock Performer RPM intake. (Which brings up another question I have, The Performer RPM Air-Gap intake... is it really that much better than a regular RPM, or just 'cooler'. ;-)

Supposedly the TFS heads are able to get those flow numbers without dropping too much power from the bottom end... is that realistic, or probably just a marketing widget?

--Matthew

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8796
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-10-2001 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Matthew,

The air gap is better 'cause it should keep the air/fuel cooler which equals a denser charge for the combustion chamber. I would match the combo with a solid cam around 230 duration @ .050, .510+ lift, 110*. Degree it about 4* advanced. It will pull from 2500 rpm to 6500+. The 289 has a nice short stroke that will spin to 6500 w/o much special in the bottom end. Good luck, and if anyone has anything to add, please feel free!

SteveW

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 776
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-10-2001 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I use the head preceding the TWs. I have the TFS Street Heat Head. It is an awesome head. I used it in my 65 with a 289 with a Hydraulic cam and it reved great. I shifted at around 6700-6800.

I used that head fully completely ported with the 292 Comp Cams Magnum cam (230 at .050 /.530 lift), 10:1 compression, Torker II intake and was able to average 147mph in the Silver State Classic with a top speed of a gear limited 168mph.

I messed up my engine racing but those same heads are going on my 342 ci stroker in a few weeks. I believe the design is similar except that the Street Heat Heads had raised exhaust ports. This was great for flow but bad for business because it would no longer bolt in and often required special headers for early Stangs. The TW uses the same design philosophy but with standard exhaust ports. I think you'll like them as much as I do and they flow so well that if you decide to move up to a larger motor the heads will be able to keep up.

------------------
65 Stang - TFS SH Stage III Heads, Nash 5 speed, Fuel Injection, etc...
2001 - Z06

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 964
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 05-10-2001 09:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Twisted Wedge heads flow very well, but keep this in mind:

The valve locations are different from stock inline valves. Not a problem with small cams, but big cams require TW specific pistons with relocated valve reliefs to match the valves. Not sure on the limti on cam size at .050, but Trick Flow advises that an advertised duration of 290 is the limit.

Unless you plan on limiting yourself to smaller cams or swapping pistons the E-boks, AFR or Avenger heads would be my choice.

All will good power and can take a larger cam if needed.

Later,

David Cole

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Big_blocker
Journeyman

Posts: 50
From: On a rock in the pacific (Hawaii)
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 05-11-2001 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big_blocker   Click Here to Email Big_blocker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey sorry to but in on this post but i was wondering if any of you know of a head about the same price of those for a 460 ? Thanks

[This message has been edited by Big_blocker (edited 05-11-2001).]

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8796
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-11-2001 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Edelbrock performer RPM's aluminum heads are available for the 429-460 Fords. 75 or 95cc chambers 2.19" int and 1.76 ex valves. Only $1700

SteveW

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Big_blocker
Journeyman

Posts: 50
From: On a rock in the pacific (Hawaii)
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 05-11-2001 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big_blocker   Click Here to Email Big_blocker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by steve'66:
Edelbrock performer RPM's aluminum heads are available for the 429-460 Fords. 75 or 95cc chambers 2.19" int and 1.76 ex valves. Only $1700

SteveW[/QUOTE thanks man

------------------
Drink gas haul a$$ American Racing

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 776
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-11-2001 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is also another choice if you want to look into it. Ford Racing makes a "Cobra Jet" aluminium head. 72cc chamber, 2.2 Intake and 1.76 exhaust.

The list price is $645 bare per head. You can probably find them for less. They are also available assembled.


quote:
Originally posted by Big_blocker:
Hey sorry to but in on this post but i was wondering if any of you know of a head about the same price of those for a 460 ? Thanks

[This message has been edited by Big_blocker (edited 05-11-2001).]


------------------
65 Stang - TFS SH Stage III Heads, Nash 5 speed, Fuel Injection, etc...
2001 - Z06

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cali289
Journeyman

Posts: 8
From: Davis, CA
Registered: May 2001

posted 05-11-2001 07:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cali289   Click Here to Email cali289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve & JAZZY,

Thanks for the cam recommendations... Best of all, you two seem to agree. ;-)

As for the amount of cam a you can run with flat-top pistons, the word from Trick Flow (thanks Artie) is:

quote:
The maximum lift is .540", The camshaft you choose should have no more than 224* @ .050" duration & no less than 112* l/s to approach .540" lift though...

He thinks a 292 Comp Cam may work, but it looks like it would be darn close.

If I used a 292 Comp Cam and had to flycut the pistons, do you think the extra cam would make up for the drop in compression?

--Matthew

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8796
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-11-2001 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Matthew,

I was thinking of the Comp 280, it's 230/230* .512/.512 lift with a 110*lsa. The more cam you use, the more compression you'll need. Larger cams bleed off compression, you'll want 9.5-10.5 cr for the 280, more for the 292. Alex is our cam expert (and everything else too). But since he's racing, this is the cam he recomended and we run in the 351w. It pulls hard from 2500 rpms up. You might also consider the Comp 270, which Alex recommends often, and is a better choice for bottom end power that you might want with the 289.

You'll definately want to "clay" the pistons to check valve-piston clearance. Flycut the pistons if you have to, before assembling the engine. Good luck,

SteveW

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 776
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-11-2001 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I have used both Cams in a 289 as well as a few others. You can't go wrong with the 280 and I'd agree with Steve in that it's probably the best choice for you. I would also say the 270 is not enough but again it depends on how you use your car. I needed some upper end power so went with the 292 but I used the 280 before and was happy with it also. I would only go with the 270 if it is a daily driver and you need a milder combination.

Please though do as Steve said and clay your pistons before assembly. Do it even if they say you have enough clearance.

quote:
Originally posted by cali289:
Steve & JAZZY,

Thanks for the cam recommendations... Best of all, you two seem to agree. ;-)

As for the amount of cam a you can run with flat-top pistons, the word from Trick Flow (thanks Artie) is:

He thinks a 292 Comp Cam may work, but it looks like it would be darn close.

If I used a 292 Comp Cam and had to flycut the pistons, do you think the extra cam would make up for the drop in compression?

--Matthew


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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8796
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-12-2001 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ditto!

Good advice Jas.

The only thing I can add is to set the 280(S hopefully) cam up 4* advanced at 106* c/l for mid range torque. Be sure to degree the cam per Comp's instructions. (buy the tools if you don't have 'em) That way you'll pull from 2500rpm or so, through 6500+.

SteveW

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Big_blocker
Journeyman

Posts: 50
From: On a rock in the pacific (Hawaii)
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 05-12-2001 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big_blocker   Click Here to Email Big_blocker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks

------------------
Drink gas haul a$$ American Racing

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 5726
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-12-2001 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'd go bigger on the cam and notch those pistons... besides its not like you are not taking the engine apart is it?

I drove a buddy's van to take stuff to a swap meet one time... it was a late 70's Econoline with a CompCam280 in an otherwise dead stock 351W 2V . It still had single exhaust and everything...you'd never have realized it had any sort of big cam to drive it, it idled with a bit of a lope which made me ask him.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2395
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-12-2001 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a big, long, detailed post all typed out before getting booted off this lovely AOL account...

Anyway, you'll get the condensed version.

The AFR 165 head is your best bet. There will be no issues with steam hole location (you'll have to re-drill these with TW heads on a 289/early 302 block), chamber size is more in line (58cc vs. 61) where your stock 289's have 54cc chambers. The quality is head over heels superior in every way. I believe their cross section area will also be more in line with your engine. I've purchased both brands, and like the AFR's that much better. I've never seen such beautiful CNC port work anywhere. You simply take them out of the box and bolt them on. They even tell you the Fel-Pro part numbers for all the gaskets you need, and every other tiny bit of info you could ask for. Just be SURE to check the valvetrain geometry on ANY engine built that is not 100% stock. You'd be surprised at just how far out it can get. I had to use pushrods 1/4" longer than stock on the last engine I built. Stock length pushrods would have wiped out the guides in no time.
Check out...

http://www.airflowresearch.com

As for the cam. I built an engine for a Shelby GT-350 clone and used a solid 224/236 @ 0.050" grind with a 110 lobe seperation. It is a Comp Cams custom grind. 270S magnum intake lobe, 282S magnum exhaust lobe. It makes great power from 2000-6300 in a flat-top 289 with good heads. It's the INTAKE duration that is the chief indicatior of a cam's rpm range. Don't go too big, or you'll only lose the low-end and mid-range.

The cam in my car measures 236/248 @ 0.050" and pulls without stumbling from around 1800 rpm, but doesn't start making REAL power until around 4000-4500k. This is in a 302.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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