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Author
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Topic: Strud Rod Adjustment
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joer
Gearhead Posts: 136
From: Westminster, California, USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 04-09-2001 12:26 PM
   
Boy, I'm just full of questions! So, I have put most all my new Front suspension together except the Strut rods. I have 2 questions. First, how tight or what kind of adjustment should I give these where they mount to the frame? 2nd, the old ones were mounted with the big washer cupped side towards the rear. It looked wrong for some reason. Should the cupped side face the bushings? Thanks!Joe
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 392
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-09-2001 08:16 PM
The cupped side needs to go against the bushing. Unless you're good with an angle finder and ruler, you'll want to get the front end aligned by a good shop, as the strut adjusts the caster, which can greatly affect the way your car tracks down the road. I forget the proper caster angle, but you can get that from a repair manual. Good luck! ------------------
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 17471
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-10-2001 11:30 PM
YES!  ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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Bob Hopkins
Gearhead Posts: 150
From: BRIDGEPORT NJ USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 04-11-2001 03:41 PM
I dont know guys I just boght a set of Moog strot rod bushings for my 68 Falcon, washer is part of rear bushing and faces away [new inproved style box and instruction say, think I still got inst in garage
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joer
Gearhead Posts: 136
From: Westminster, California, USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 04-11-2001 05:03 PM
My instructions say the same thing. The old stuff came off the car that way too. Funny thing is I called Canadian Mustang and asked them about it and they said you can do it either way?? They say if you face the rear cup washer towards the bushing it will tighten the suspension and away (normal) will be just a little more soft. I'm all crossed up on this topic now.. Confused (Joe)
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RonnieT
Gearhead Posts: 456
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 04-11-2001 10:08 PM
If you install the washer with the cup towards the bushing it will compress the bushing as the suspension moves through its travel, tightening up the suspension some. When the washer is facing the control arm(correct way), the washer does not compress the bushing and allows the suspension to move freely.------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 392
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-11-2001 10:24 PM
Sorry 'bout that!  However, I looked at an old '67 out back, my Torino, and my '68, and they all have the cup towards the bushing, so I still think they came that way from the factory. I might have to try reversing the cups on my drag car, since it might help front end rise(?) ------------------
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Tom351
Journeyman Posts: 93
From: Marietta,GA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-12-2001 09:49 AM
I don't like the idea of reversed. In my opinion, don't look to front suspension for front end rise, I prefer to try to accelerate the car forward rather than up (although with enough power and traction, it is gonna come up)------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Carter 750 CFM, Comp. Cam 477/510 219/[email protected], Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.
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Rustang1
Gearhead Posts: 106
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-12-2001 12:33 PM
no weight transfer + P285-60R15 + 575hp = tire smoke  ------------------
1968 Mustang,Clevor,C4
1969 Torino 351C 4spd
1978 F150 460 C6
1978 F150 351W C6
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joer
Gearhead Posts: 136
From: Westminster, California, USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 04-12-2001 12:37 PM
Just to add a little extra meat to the topic, while I had the strud rods out, I decided to clean and prep them for paint. So, I take them out, strip the bushings and nuts off then try to get the bolts out. Well, after tapping them out with a hammer, I wondered if I shouldn't have done that. I think those bolts were meant to stay in there. They are some kind of tap in and leave in bolts? Am I ok to put these back in? Or does this make sense?Joe
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Rustang1
Gearhead Posts: 106
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-12-2001 02:45 PM
I assume you're talking about the bolts that attach the strut rod to the lower a-arm? It's probably a good idea to replace fasteners like that with new, assuming what's available as reproduction is as good as original. Now me personally, I'm cheap, so I'd clean them up good, look for signs of wear, corrosion, or stretching, and re-use them. I believe the nuts may be lock nuts, which normally should be replaced or else slightly peened before reusing. Also, I think usually the bolts are drilled for cotter pins?
------------------
1968 Mustang,Clevor,C4
1969 Torino 351C 4spd
1978 F150 460 C6
1978 F150 351W C6
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Rustang1
Gearhead Posts: 106
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-12-2001 02:52 PM
One thing I'd like to ask, has anybody had any experience with urethane strut bushings? A buddy of mine works with a guy that installed them in his '69, and he experienced two strut rod failures, resulting in 1 spin-out and one meeting with a bank. What he found was the urethane was so stiff that the strut was flexing instead of the bushing!
BEWARE!  ------------------
1968 Mustang,Clevor,C4
1969 Torino 351C 4spd
1978 F150 460 C6
1978 F150 351W C6
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Tom351
Journeyman Posts: 93
From: Marietta,GA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-12-2001 03:34 PM
I have had urethane bushings in front of the frame mount only, not both sides, and have not had any problems (I installed them several years ago, before I heard warnings). I think another factor could be using these urethane bushings on a car with a loose suspension. If the suspension moves up and down freely, it seems that it would stress the rod more (by moving farther and more often) than with a stiff suspension setup. I am not about to use all urethane though, and I am even considering re-installing rubber ones on the front-side. ------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Carter 750 CFM, Comp. Cam 477/510 219/[email protected], Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.
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mvierow
Gearhead Posts: 149
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-12-2001 04:14 PM
If thats the case, I wonder how the TCP struts would handle. They have those aircraft joints that swivel instead of the rubber bushings which seems that they might cause the same problem. Anyone using these, and if so, had any problems?Mike
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Rustang1
Gearhead Posts: 106
From:
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-12-2001 04:53 PM
The spherical rod end should be the best way to go. You have no resistance to suspension movement, and the rod is positively located so there is no bushing deflection to change caster during operation. The only drawback I could see would be increased road noise and shock thru the frame.------------------
1968 Mustang,Clevor,C4
1969 Torino 351C 4spd
1978 F150 460 C6
1978 F150 351W C6
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74merc
Gearhead Posts: 733
From: Demopolis AL
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 04-13-2001 03:31 AM
just to pipe in here, my strut rod bushing washers are facing the bushings in both of my '74 Mercury Comets, one, I haven't owned forever, so I can't swear its stock, the other has been in my family since it came off the lot, I'm sure on it.
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 782
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 04-15-2001 10:26 AM
The Pictures in the 68 shop manual shows the washers cupped inwards toward the bushings.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 17471
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-15-2001 11:37 AM
Has anyone seen this weeks episode of Dream Car Garage? They had a 70 Mach 1 that they were installing some of the trickest adjustable strut rods on I have ever seen. I did not catch the manufacturer as I only got a glance, but boy did they look sweet. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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73mach460
Journeyman Posts: 39
From: Oldenburg, IN USA
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 04-16-2001 12:04 PM
Alex,They were Total Control Products. www.totalcontrolproducts.com ------------------
Brian Rennekamp
73 Mach1 (in progress)
460/C6
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 17471
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 04-16-2001 03:38 PM
Thanks Brian. ------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link
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jkilroy
Gearhead Posts: 1609
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 04-16-2001 10:15 PM
I went through this issue already. Cup OUT, I repeat, cup side OUT on BOTH bushings. I know the busings seem to be built just right for the cups to go in but that ain't the way it is supposed to go. I got this info from some of the fastest vintage class mustang racers in the business.Cup in imparts a much higher load on a section of the chassis that is not designed for that type of load. The strut rod is supposed to located the lower control arm and thats it. It is *not* intended to provide any spring action to the suspension. If this were the case, why would people like TCP and Global West spend all that money to replace them with rod ends. Mr. Baer, (yes the brake guy), had a strut rod fail while on the track, and almost bought the wall in the process. He was running poly busings. As far as the poly busings go, if you have replacement rubber parts use them instead. ------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"
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Tom351
Journeyman Posts: 93
From: Marietta,GA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-17-2001 11:16 AM
That makes since, cup out would be closer to the performance rods in function than cup-in would be.------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W ,Trick Flow Aluminum Heads, Edelbrock TorkerII, Carter 750 CFM, Comp. Cam 477/510 219/[email protected], Performance Automatic C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.
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joer
Gearhead Posts: 136
From: Westminster, California, USA
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 04-17-2001 01:27 PM
I think I'm going to go with cup out. That's the way they were installed when I took them off, that's what the directions say as well. But, the cup out was only on the control arm side. Thanks for the great feedback,Joe
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