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  Auto vs. Manual Starter?

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Author Topic:   Auto vs. Manual Starter?
sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-05-2001 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I swapped my C4 for a Toploader. When I picked up the Toploader I took various parts to see if we needed to swap those also. One was the starter. When we compared they looked identical so I kept mine and he kept his. I got my car put back together and when I tried to start it got a nasty (gears not quite meshing) type of sound. Wrong starter? I will run, not walk to the auto parts store if this is it. Any suggestions as to what to tell the counter guy as I don't have an example to show him? It's a 72' 302, 69' Toploader in a 66' Coupe. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

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Candy Apple
66' Coupe
15" Styled Steel Wheels

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-05-2001 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A stick starter has a shorter nose and gear drive engagment length than an automatic. Just ask for a 65-66 Mustang 289 stick starter.

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-06-2001 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, thanks. Once again you have given me just what I needed. Too bad it wasn't enough to over ride my incredible bad luck/ignorance. I purchased what I was assured was the correct starter. It looked amazingly like the one I took off. It won't fit. The bottom flange goes flush and the case of the starter hits the flange of the oil pan before the top flange gets within a 1/4". I measured and looked at the 2 starters side by side and they are, by all appearances, identical. Back to the parts store.

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Candy Apple
66' Coupe
15" Styled Steel Wheels

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-07-2001 12:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is incredible!!! Second starter, different manufacturer and the same stinkin' problem. What's the deal? Trying a different parts store with different batch of starters tomorrow. Anybody have any insight as to what the problem is? I have been told that Ford only made one starter for 289/302 and 2 models. Stick and Auto. Why am I having this problem? I'd sure like to try out my new/used Toploader with the new clutch and new shifter but I don't want to push start it to do it!

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 46005
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 03-07-2001 02:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can you get your original starter back and just swap the nose?

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'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Loc
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L Disposable Commuter
"Ford! The closer YOU look, the better WE look!"

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-07-2001 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They keep on giving you automatic starters. You MUST DEMAND a stick starter. Nitwit parts counterpeople!

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-07-2001 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, I tried, it's gone.
Alex, I have looked at the screen they are looking at when they look it up and it says M/T, and also compared the one they gave me to an Auto and the nose on the one they keep giving me is obviously shorter. The Auto starter that was originally on my car would fit with 1/8" to spare (it just would not hook up with the flywheel). The Manual starters I keep getting are about 1/8" off and hit the flange on the oil pan/block before the top bolt hole is flush. I just tried the 3rd starter, with a different part number, with the same result. I've tried 2 - 3132's and one 3154 which looks like a 3132 with a different hookup for the cable, 3131 is the Auto. Something ain't right.

How do you identify the bell housing?

I know the block is a 72' 302 by the casting number, it's gotta be the bell housing, right? This is making me crazy!!!

[This message has been edited by sprcoop (edited 03-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by sprcoop (edited 03-07-2001).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-07-2001 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
3132 is the correct industry number sprcoop. Bell housings have a casting number on them. What flywheel are you using?

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-07-2001 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, That's a good question. I never even thought about it because the whole setup came out of a running car and our starters looked identical. How can I tell and what are the possibilities? The starter doesn't even get close enough to getting installed to even have a chance to mesh with the flywheel.

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-09-2001 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I found a starter that works. I had to ream out the hole in the spacer plate between the block and bell housing about 1/32 of an inch to make it fit but it worked. It is the 3185. It has the same nose but smaller body so it didn't hit the block. I never found out what vehicle it was for but it fit and started my car. I hope this helps anyone that might go through this. I will try to see what car it is for and post it. I haven't got a chance to drive it yet as I got the starter in last nite and found the battery was dead. Charged it up over nite and started it still on blocks before work this morning.

Thanks to all that replied. What a crazy problem! Only for me.

[This message has been edited by sprcoop (edited 03-09-2001).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-09-2001 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OH Sig, you didn't tell us the the rear starter housing was hitting something. We all assumed that the nose was giving you trouble.

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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sprcoop
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 03-10-2001 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sprcoop   Click Here to Email sprcoop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, sorry about that. I guess I wasn't very clear.

The good news is that I actually got to drive my car! I've always wanted a V8 4 speed car and now I have one! This is cool beans!

The tranny and shifter is sweet. The clutch even works pretty well. I was careful to replace all bushings and grease them up when installed so it's smooth and quiet!

It does highlight how beat my poor old 2V 302 is however (6 month old gas probably isn't helping). Next project, new 300+ HP motor ASAP!

Thank you very much to one and all that assisted on this 5 month project from removing my C4 to getting the Toploader in. I couldn't have done it without you (I'm not very good at this stuff).

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Candy Apple Red
66' Coupe
Wide Ratio Toploader
2V 302 (icky!)
15" Styled Steel Wheels

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3296
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-10-2001 10:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sam did have a legitimate problem, I ran into the same thing tonight. I was putting a Duralast DL3132 manual starter in Becks convertible. After fighting with it for awhile around the headers, I was starting to get pi$$ed, and tired. Started checking some dimensions, the hole size in the spacer plate is 4.080" and the rabbit on the starter housing is 4.125". Interesting is that the starter has a casting number of D5 for a 1975. Another trip back to Auto Zone, I'm gonna learn to trial fit before painting this time.

Mike

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