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  Why was 427 dropped in 68' by Ford?

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Author Topic:   Why was 427 dropped in 68' by Ford?
67Fastback
Journeyman

Posts: 39
From: Independence, KY
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 02-23-2001 11:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67Fastback   Click Here to Email 67Fastback     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So who can tell me what the deal was here?

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Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 10180
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 02-24-2001 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson   Click Here to Email Dave Gibson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 427 was only briefly offered for Mustangs. It was the "W" Code engine. We had a very large debate on this subject not to long ago. Alex, would be the person to have more details on this issue. I believe that it had something to do with the comming of the 428CJ in 1968.

Dave & Terri

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66 Bench Coupe (Anna Belle)
65 "A" Code w/4 Speed (Poni)
66 "C" Code Coupe (Sally)
MCA#47921
M&M #166

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 6137
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 02-24-2001 03:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'd say the bean counters at Ford didn't wanna spend the $4 per engine or whatever the 427 cost over building 390's in volume.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-25-2001 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The "W" code was indeed the last 427 FE offered by FoMoCo. It was installed in around 600 68 Cougar GT-E's, a few 68 Torinos, and at least one documented 68 Galaxy. Although there is documentation that the engine was to be installed in 68 Mustangs, we have yet to locate an actual car. I have seen Photos of prototype mules, but those were allegedly crushed. FoMoCo realized early on that the 428 CJ was a much more viable alternative to the temperamental and warrantee prone 427. Also the horsepower ratings were much to high for insurance and competition ratings. The 428 CJ with it's conservative 335 HP was perfect to replace the 427, and it was much easier to live with with a 5600 RPM redline and non adjustable hydraulic lifters. It was also cheaper to mass produce as it was not a dedicated "race" engine that had to be hand assembled by "special" master technicians. There's more to the story but this is the gist of it.

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3996
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 01-10-2002 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For what it's worth, I just heard a story about a "genuine" '68 Stang with a 427 SOHC that was spotted recently at a meet in Angeles. This is near Clark Air Base, where there are probably more Mustang afficionadoes per square foot than anywhere in world Then the car and driver just disappeared and everyone has been looking for it/him since! Will keep you posted if I hear more.
Simon

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mellowyellow
Gearhead

Posts: 7401
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 01-10-2002 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mellowyellow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Ghost Rider In The Sky. LOL! Maybe he comes around like Halley's Comet.He sounds like the same one that's made "appearances" in various part of different continents. He's about as fabled as the city of "Atlantis"! LOL! No offence, Simon. Didn't Kevin Marti make a statement about this topic?

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Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 10180
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-10-2002 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson   Click Here to Email Dave Gibson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Pete,
Yes, Kevin did state that there was in fact NO "W" code Mustangs ever built. There was a Super Snake or two that were built. But these were not normal production Mustangs.

Dave & Terri

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Poison Ivy (Dave's)
'65 Fastback Modified 289 4V, C-4, dual exhaust, styled steel wheels, rally pac, A/C
Blue Belle (Terri's)
'66 Coupe, Silver Blue Metallic, 351W 2-V, 4 speed, A/C, future sleeper.

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Dr. Who
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Redwood City, Ca.
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 01-11-2002 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Who   Click Here to Email Dr. Who     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I met a guy at a Ford only meet in Oakland Ca. about 10 or so years ago that had a fiberglass Cobra (kit car) with a Boss 429 motor and a bunch of (fake) paperwork that he swore was a production car. I'll bet it's the only one .

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Moe! Larry! Cheese! Curly Howard

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-11-2002 12:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One thing I do know for certain is that there was never any "gennie" cammer anything built at the factory by FoMoCo. Nascar racers, A/FX cars, and a few prototype CanAm deals were all built by FoMoCo authorized "tuners" such as Holman Moody or Bud Moore.
PS Thanks for saving me the typing time.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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Greenstang
Gearhead

Posts: 908
From: its all a fog..
Registered: May 2001

posted 01-11-2002 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greenstang   Click Here to Email Greenstang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
a few prototype CanAm deals were all

Alex,
do you have more info on the prototype can-am motors?
TIA

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Marcus?
"To do something well is worthwhile, and that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy.
It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
- Bruce McLaren,
founder of the McLaren Formula One team, who died in a testing accident in England in 1970.

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 6137
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 01-11-2002 04:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
some really different CanAm stuff... 351" engines several years before there was such a thing as the 351W. And 327" 289's with rods having angled caps.

The first Cammer 64 Galaxie prototype was likely built at a Ford garage . Various hints about other Cammer cars as they geared up for production which apparently was supposed to start for 67. There must be some stories here. Was it all a hoax to get Nascar to buy the "production" idea? Did Ford really intend to build SOHC Galaxies at all? They had gone as far as to have engine VIN codes assigned (D and L)

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1693
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-11-2002 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you have ever been to Don Garlits` Museum of Drag Racing, I`m sure you have seen the 427 SOHC engine on display in a glass box.This engine is equipped with a set of cast iron exhaust headers, likely to fit a Galaxie chassis. I would have to assume that they would have XE casting numbers on them, but I`m not positive. Anybody know? I can`t get enough detail in the photo`s I took of the cammer when I was there in 94. At that time, Garlits had just completed a restoration of Pete Robinsons 427 SOHC front engine dragster "TinkerToy". What an awesome engine.I have an original 1966 Crane Cams catolog at home, with Robinson cammer on the cover.Jim Green (the owner of the "Green Elephant" Funny Cars of the 70`s) has quite a large collections of SOHC`s. Two of his street rods are cammer powered, including his "Flip Top Phaeton" 34 Ford,(blown&injected 427SOHC) which was featuered in many automotive magazines a few years back. He also had a cammer powered puller truck, with a Gilmer belted timing belt set up.

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3296
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-11-2002 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most of Fords mid-sixties supercars were built by Dearborn Steel Tubing then sent out to dealers.

Mike

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DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead

Posts: 1640
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99

posted 01-11-2002 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker   Click Here to Email DidgeyTrucker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my two cents:
As I understand it the 427 was too expensive to build, the insurance companies didn't like the high horsepower, the government didn't like the exhaust emissions and the 428CJ was just around the corner. Plus the '68 model 427 had been "demoted" to hydraulic cam/ single 4V status.
I, too, have seen photos of cammers with cast iron exhaust manifolds.
I have often wondered about that six foot timing chain spinning at 8 grand for a 500 mile NASCAR race. That WAS the intended application of the motor.
I read somewhere the cammer made its first public appearance in a 1964 Galaxie at the 1964 Indy 500.

This photo was published in the November 1964 Super Stock magazine:

Note the "upside down" valve covers!

Here is the number you can see in the photo:

Looks like "120693".

Tracy

[This message has been edited by DidgeyTrucker (edited 01-11-2002).]

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mustangs68
Moderator

Posts: 25375
From: Buckroe Beach Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: May 99

posted 01-11-2002 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangs68   Click Here to Email mustangs68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guy across the street a car nut too..
at one time he had a 427 64 Galaxie..

sam

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-12-2002 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes I have more Can Am info. Dearborn Steel and Tubing did very little for FoMoCo. Their claim to fame was the Thunderbolt program. FoMoCo wore them out with that. There were several sub contractors who built FoMoCo's "skunk works" cars.
MOre tomorrow.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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KULTULZ
Gearhead

Posts: 870
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 09-27-2004 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KULTULZ   Click Here to Email KULTULZ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kevin Marti has not come across paper on a 1968 MUST or FAIRLANE "W" CODE. All production went to the MERC COUGAR (and that ended with the CJ). The engine was a flop as they detuned it too far (new block, small heads, resrtictive exhaust manifolds, hydraulic cam, etc.) and was no match for 396/375's or Hemi-Cuda's. The cost/warranty factor also came into play. Had it not been for TASCA FORD, the 428CJ may never have seen light.

FORD was great on Sunday's, but couldn't muster the rest of the week. Sad but true.

The 427 SOHC was scheduled for 1966 GALAXY assembly to comply with NASCAR regulation, but Bill France told FORD in a non-polite way that the engine was outlawed, even though MOPAR was allowed to keep their HEMI.

-COUGAR GT-E Registry-

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wvcat
Gearhead

Posts: 300
From: New Cumberland,WV
Registered: May 2001

posted 09-27-2004 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for wvcat   Click Here to Email wvcat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The way it was explained tome is that the 427 suffered from block problems. The bore os 1/4 inch larger than the 390 and the cylinder walls were to thin causing overheating and cracking.
John
wvcat

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Thanks
John
(wvcat)
http://www.geocities.com/wvxr7cougar/wvcat_01.html?989286238390
70 XR7 Restomod...wvcat
66 coupe project...she needs a name!!!

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T5owner
Gearhead

Posts: 704
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 09-29-2004 01:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T5owner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was told the W-code was about to be offered in the Mustang for 775 Dollar,but was withdrawn by the beancounters, as they did not saw any profit from this coming.
Kevin Marti repeatedly confirmed, no W-code in a Mustang ex-factory.
However I'm just in touch with a "genuine" Ford engineer who has little doubt there must have been test car built.

[This message has been edited by T5owner (edited 09-29-2004).]

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GTRocks
Gearhead

Posts: 4370
From: Lusby, MD
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-29-2004 05:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GTRocks   Click Here to Email GTRocks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Damn, KULTULZ, you dug deep for this post, didn't you?!?!

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Tom G
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 09-29-2004 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom G   Click Here to Email Tom G     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A cammer showed up at Ray's show in NE Phila this past spring. I remember it well cause the thing was stuffed in a 2 door Fairmont. Blended shock towers and all. Motor that is!

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67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 600 Holley ceramic coated headers T5, cable clutch Flows X Pipe 3.89 9". Clearwater Aqua GT Clone Vintage40 series 16X8 225 front 255/50 rear drag radials 13.30 on 255/50/16 BFG Drag radials

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SkinnyMan
Gearhead

Posts: 464
From: Tupelo, MS - USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 05-23-2005 08:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkinnyMan   Click Here to Email SkinnyMan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
For what it's worth, I just heard a story about a "genuine" '68 Stang with a 427 SOHC that was spotted recently at a meet in Angeles. This is near Clark Air Base, where there are probably more Mustang afficionadoes per square foot than anywhere in world Then the car and driver just disappeared and everyone has been looking for it/him since! Will keep you posted if I hear more.
Simon

Did you check down in Olongapo City?

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SkinnyMan
Tupelo, MS

Thank you, Thank you very much!

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T5owner
Gearhead

Posts: 704
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-26-2005 01:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T5owner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
427 in a Dec,67 built Mustang.
Moneymaker - if you have pics of those testmules or remember them, is this one similar with the fresh air tubes?

the vents in the grill openings are installed later. Originally it came with big tubes to the the carb and a bubble hood.

[This message has been edited by T5owner (edited 05-26-2005).]

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427Fastback
Gearhead

Posts: 402
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 05-26-2005 02:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 427Fastback   Click Here to Email 427Fastback     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What year was that pic taken...

Alex pretty much sums it.CJ is set to replace the 427.Cost of producing the 427....The block recieved very special treatment..
A few thoughts....
I have seen and owned many 427s and never seen a cracked block.
My car will never and has never overheated.190-200 all day long no matter how hard you push it..
I have driven a 68 427GTE (stock) and it is no match for a 428CJ.
I do know where there is a 302 Tunnell Port (i have seen it)Anyone know of one that is up and running.. Cory

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68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.

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T5owner
Gearhead

Posts: 704
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-27-2005 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T5owner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Above pic is from around 2001, mystery car is in Switzerland.
Any pics of your 427 68FB engine bay?

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427Fastback
Gearhead

Posts: 402
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 05-27-2005 04:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 427Fastback   Click Here to Email 427Fastback     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The MSD and KYB shocks made me curious about the year of the pic.I have lots of pictures of the eng in various trim over the last 15 years but honestly have know idea how to post a picture on here...

Cory

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68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.

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