Brought to you in part by:

.

Tools & Supplies by Eastwood

  Mustangsandmore Forums
  '64 1/2 to '73 -- The Classic Mustang
  351W Stroker Kit: Buy or Make?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   351W Stroker Kit: Buy or Make?
Clark
Gearhead

Posts: 524
From: Rowlett,Texas
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-29-2001 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clark   Click Here to Email Clark     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, this is one of those tough decisions and I am needing input from some of the best advice I can get. My 351W is now removed and awaiting parts for a rebuild. I am interested in going with a stroker kit but most of the one's I have seen are almost $2,000 and that just includes crank,rods,pistons,bearings and rings. I was thinking of making up my own stroker kit using a 400M crank and Chrysler 360 rods. This was done in a 1991 M&F article called the "Windsor from hell". This will need machining work but the parts would defintely be cheaper, which one would you recommend?

Also, I am installing a Erson cam P/N ERS-E210121 with 214 degrees duration @ .050 and .478 Int./Exh. lift. What would be the difference installing 1.6 or 1.7 roller rockers?

I am trying to build a sleeper that will still hold a smooth idle, am I going the wrong way?

------------------
69 351W Sportsroof Deluxe

IP: Logged

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 4240
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-29-2001 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clark,

With a mild cam like that, you will be keeping the rpm's low. If you are, you can probably get away with stock chrysler 360 rods and heavy forged pistons. But the engine will have all the power and torque of a 455 Oldsmobile! Gear it tall and roast tires all over town.

The main thing to remember with strokers is piston speed. As stroke increases so does the speed of the piston between stopped at t.d.c. and stopped again at b.d.c., etc. The 351 is already a stroked 289 with long rods. The 289's piston speed at 7000 rpm is the same as a 351 at apprx. 6000 rpm, and a stroker maybe more like 4800 rpm. The point of this babble is that a stroker kit should contain great rods and pistons that won't be pulled apart by the piston speed at "high" rpms. That way you can take advantage of those cubic inches. My 'opinion' the kit is worth it.

SteveW

IP: Logged

kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 2146
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-29-2001 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Steve. By the time you get the machining and all the proper parts together you will end up haveing close to the $2000 dollars in the stroker. By going with a proven kit of matched components you'll be money ahead. Just my opinion. Also, the cam is much too mild for what you want to accomplish.

Mike

IP: Logged

mitch
Journeyman

Posts: 12
From:
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 01-29-2001 11:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mitch   Click Here to Email mitch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am currently building a sroker 351c so a while back I was thinking the same thing as you. The cost of the kit is expensive but you need to look at the cost of the total package to get the most out of the extra cubes, good cylinder heads, roller cam,roler rockers,intake manifold,headers, ignition,ect. It gets very expensive very quickly don't forget machining. A less expensive way to go might be a long arm kit,speed-o-motive and coast high performance each make one for about 800 dollars, you should check out there web sites. I thought about useing one with aussi heads they say you can run as high as 11 to 1 cr on pump gas, but I would ask the experts at mustangs and more before you spend any money.

IP: Logged

Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 492
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-29-2001 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's another option. I went this route. Called one of the stroker companies (Ford Performance Solutions) and ordered the rods (H-beam 6.125) $529 and pistons (Ross custom domed) $549. I had them supply the specs to me and I had my own crank (free) offset ground locally. Cost $150 to offset grind, another $150 to widen the rod journals to the SBC rod width. The journal work removed alot of weight. (.125 off the inside of each counterweight) that it was easy and cheap to balance. Only took 36 grams of heavy metal and $125 to balance.

Note that this was over 3 years ago and the cheaper $650 aftermarket cranks were not around yet.

I prefer my stroker setup over the larger ones for several reasons. It is a 383 ci. 3.70 stroke X 4.060 bore. Would be a 377 if it had a 4.030 bore.

The 377/383 has a better rod ratio when compared to the 400+ ci strokers, the crank is 10 times easier to balance because you start with a 351 crank to begin with. The 400 cranks have to be cut down and are very hard to balance. Also the 400 + motors require killer heads to perform to potential. The 377/383 can live with less $$$ heads. The big strokers also are living on the edge at anything over 63-6400 rpm. Again due to the crank.

If I was going to do a 400+ it would be with and aftermarket crank from the start.

Later,

David Cole

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 13010
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-30-2001 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would buy one of the many good kits that are available these days. It is much more cost effective. .478 lift???? I have a bigger cam than that in my tow truck!

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

Clark
Gearhead

Posts: 524
From: Rowlett,Texas
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-30-2001 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clark   Click Here to Email Clark     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks everyone for replying,
David I like the idea of using the smaller 377 upgrade. I am interested in warming this motor up not trying to see how much it will take.
Alex, remember I am a girly man with power steering and A/C, so I still need some vacuum to keep everything working. I know the cam is weak but it's better than the stock one, I would also like some input about the rockers. There are alot to choose from and I know I can get some added lift from those. Any help on those?

IP: Logged

Jim Sams
Journeyman

Posts: 55
From: Charlotte NC
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-30-2001 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Sams   Click Here to Email Jim Sams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,
Why not buy the cheap Scat of Ford motorsports crank with the 3.85 stroke.
Use stock (preferably upgraded) 351W rods and 302 pistons.
I have a 372C I if I were to do it over I would buy a Scat crank and use the 351 rods.

Thanks, Jim Sams

IP: Logged

Clark
Gearhead

Posts: 524
From: Rowlett,Texas
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-30-2001 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clark   Click Here to Email Clark     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Jim,
I am about as dumb as a rock, but what is this Scat crank and where would you get one? Why would you use the 302 pistons, is it for clearance?

IP: Logged

Just Jim
Gearhead

Posts: 381
From: So Cal
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 01-30-2001 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Just Jim     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clark, having a 351W in my Falcon I have also being thinking of stroking it so I've been watching this post.The Scat crank is from a Southern California company who makes cranks and I think they are sold thru Ford Motorsport and other places.Their 393inch 351W crank has 3.85 inch stroke and works with stock length 351W rods and uses 302 pistons.The crank is about $575-$600,302 pistons are reasonable and you could use your existing 351W rods,just have some ARP bolts installed.Sounds like a plan to me,but as I said I was just thinking about it,may not do it.Speedo-motive should have the crank at a good price.

------------------
"Just Falcon Around"
1962 Falcon 351W
1958 Morris Minor 289

IP: Logged

Jim Sams
Journeyman

Posts: 55
From: Charlotte NC
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-31-2001 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Sams   Click Here to Email Jim Sams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,
The Scat/Ford motorsports crank is the way to go. For sround $1K or so you can have 393 cubes. If you do the math, you will see that the 302 pistons have the right compression height when used with the 351W rods and a 3.85 stroke crank in a 9.5" "W" block. Then the problem is getting a head to supply enough air in and out without resorting to custom headers. The Edelbrock Victor Jr. heads look like a good candidate.
In my research, headers are a real problem in large displacement windsors. Will a 427 stroker really breath well through a set of 1 5/8" headers?
Due to the head dilema I built a 372C with the 4V heads. I am still sorting it out so I can't claim I made the right decision yet.......

IP: Logged

ekbeanctr
Gearhead

Posts: 175
From: Middlebury, IN USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 01-31-2001 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ekbeanctr   Click Here to Email ekbeanctr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How about the AFR Heads? they were featured in Mustangs & Fast Fords in December. Added 75 HP in a stroker over The Good Ford Motorsports Heads.

------------------
Have a Wonderful Day
CandyApple 65 Fastback

IP: Logged

Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 492
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-31-2001 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For headers: Hooker Super Comp #6208. These are 1 3/4 equal length headers for a 351W in a 65-70 Mustang. I have a set in my 69. They are engine swap headers made just to be able to put a 351W in an early car. I talked with Hooker before I bought mine. The prototype car that they used to design them was a 65 with a 351W and a C-6. If they will fit that combo anything else is easy. These headers will flow enoguh for a big Windsor on the street or a little smaller one at the track. My 383W will turn 7200 easy with them. (But I shift at 6800-6900 for better consistency).

Heads: People keep forgetting about the Windsor Sr. heads. Out of the box they leave a bit to be desired, but they are easy to home port and show big gains with just cutting the casting flash out. Not too hard to get them into the same flow range as the Victor Jrs for alot less cash. Been there, doing that. You can get a set with upgraded springs and bowl porting already done for ~$900 new. (Mine were from Keith Craft Racing, ordered w/ roller springs, pc seals, valves and bowl port, did the runners myself)

Will be interesting to see what Jack Roush does with them. He has taken over the design/production of these heads and has made some changes. Has a 165cc head, a 200 cc and also has a new 220 cc on the drawing board.

Later,

David Cole

IP: Logged

67coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 228
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-01-2001 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67coupe   Click Here to Email 67coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey u cleavland guys what crank would u suggest me using ive got a 40 over block and would like to make it 370- 380 range fairly cheap and make it deacent durable it wont see alot of nitro or severe racing just some teat and tune from time to time mostly crusing around and playing ive got 70 model 4bbl heads to use sorry so long

------------------
67 coupe soon to have 351c
87 bronco II on 33's
30 model A currently rustbucket

IP: Logged

TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4028
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 02-01-2001 02:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, Scat/Ford motorsports crank is the way to go... if you were on a super-tight budget you could use factory 5.0L pistons and hone a decent 351 block to a loose standard bore.
The World Products and other heads show up used fairly often around here, some bargains to be had.
I've bought hundreds of heads in my life and never had any new ones (FE's will do that to ya!) too many folks buy the un-needed "fluff" when on a budget.

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited 02-01-2001).]

IP: Logged

Jim Sams
Journeyman

Posts: 55
From: Charlotte NC
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-01-2001 07:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Sams   Click Here to Email Jim Sams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For a Cleveland stroker, the easy way to go would be to get the Scat 3.85 or 4" stroke crank with the 2.75" mains. I think you have to use the SVO balancer spacer. Use windsor rods with the 3.85 or cheap 6" chebby rods with the 4" stroke. Lunati makes relatively cheap (~$525) custom pistons which you would need.
I have seen a buildup that used boss 302 pistons, and 5.7" chebby rods with the small end bushed to the .912 dia. I think the crank was offset ground to 3.7 or 3.75 stroke. I really don't think that this is any cheaper than the scat crank.
On my buildup (372) I used an offset ground clev crank to a 3.64" stroke and 6.125" mopar rods and lunati custom pistons.
The Scat crank was not available when I started my build. I would use it now if I were to do it over.

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 13010
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-01-2001 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FRPP 1.7 3/8 stud mount rockers would help that cam along Clark. We stock them.

------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

Gary
Gearhead

Posts: 702
From: Sarasota, Fla. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-01-2001 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gary   Click Here to Email Gary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See stroker kits here at www.flatlanderracing .com There are loads of options, and prices are good. I got my 528ci. stroker kit from them and very happy with their service and quality parts. They offer kits for all Ford engines, even kits for Windsors up to 454cid. & 805cid for the 385 series engines...Yikes!

IP: Logged

Ollie
Journeyman

Posts: 7
From: Providence, RI
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-04-2001 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ollie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You could have a 400 crank offset ground to a 3.85" stroke and Chevy journal size. Then resize 300 rods (6.21" length) to Chevy big end and pin diameters. Pistons with pin heights around 1.36" will bring it to a zero deck, there are plenty to choose from because of the smallblock Chevrolet's prevalence. These won't have interrupted rings. So it will be junkyard prices for the crank and rods, but you'll have to pay for a bunch of machine work. This gives a rod/stroke ratio that's pretty good for a stroker, 1.61:1 I think. Plus the homebrew cred.

Ollie

IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2002, Steve LaRiviere


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Where are the M&M Members From?]

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[About M&M][Acronym Guide][Calendar of Events][Chat Room][Classified Ads] [Links]

[Members' Photos] [M&M Mug Shots] [Technical Articles][Ford Parts Number Deciphering

[ Mustangsandmore.com Bookstore] [Advertise on Mustangsandmore.com] [Mustangsandmore.com T-Shirts]