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  Holley Pro-Jection vs. Street Avenger

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Author Topic:   Holley Pro-Jection vs. Street Avenger
horseballz
Gearhead

Posts: 294
From: LasVegas,NV
Registered: Dec 99

posted 01-16-2001 02:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for horseballz   Click Here to Email horseballz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howdy folks, especially Alex,

Any thoughts on the Holley analog Pro-Jection alternative to a carb? I'm still trying to make my final decision on fuel delivery. My new GT40-P has finally arrived, equipped with B303 cam and 1:7 roller rockers. I have a Performer RPM intake and Tri-Y headers (unfortunately the Tri-y was all that I could find available to fit the "P" heads in a '68 Mustang). Dennis from Cental Coast Mustang, where I purchased the engine, suggested a 0-80508S carb which is a 750cfm 4160 with vacuum secondaries and electric choke. From what I've been reading, it seems that this is overkill and would create less perfomance in the under 6000 RPM range instead of more. I guess my questions are, what do you think of the Pro-Jection alternative, which requires no computer or electonics, or do you think I'm better off with a carb? If it's a carb, how about the new Holley Street Avenger that has adjustable vacuum secondaries, float bowl sight plugs, etc.? It's available in 570cfm and 670cfm. Is the 570 too small or just right? I will be doing all of my driving on the street and don't plan to race, except to maybe go to the local strip for some time trials just for fun and reference. I'll be using a T5, and for now "LAME" (2.79) gears, but plan to change to 3.20 to 3.50 range. I want to have reasonable fuel mileage on the highway (75-85mph) and still have good performance around town. Your thoughts will be much appreciated.
Thank you very much,
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horseballz

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68 coupe
289/3speed(soon to be 5.0/5speed)
68 Coupe
289
C4

[This message has been edited by horseballz (edited 01-16-2001).]

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cpmaverick
Gearhead

Posts: 1666
From: Santa Clarita, CA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 01-16-2001 10:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpmaverick   Click Here to Email cpmaverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Projection requires a computer and all the sensors that all EFI systems require. It uses a GM-style MAP system. The real gains from fuel injection are from port injectors, not central (carb-style) injection. You'd gain some driveability but power-wise a carb would be about the same or maybe a little better.

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3296
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-16-2001 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the 4-D will run about $1200, for about the same money the 4-Di can be progrmmed with multiple fuel maps. Either way they are both throttle body type FI units. For the money I'd stay with the carbs.

Mike my $.02

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Rustang1
Gearhead

Posts: 110
From:
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-17-2001 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang1   Click Here to Email Rustang1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A buddy of mine runs the projection system on his '67 Camaro (yeah, I know!)and he couldn't be happier with it. It is the bare bones version without the software stuff. The remarkable thing is he's running a 355 w/iron Dart heads, .650 lift roller cam(108 seperation), and 11:1 compression with pump gas. The car goes low 11's thru the mufflers on drag radials. He drives it to the track. Anyhow, he credits alot of the cars performance to the projection. Even with the big-*** cam, this thing idles good in traffic and is very streetable. He tunes it with an analog (cheap)voltmeter that he can watch while driving. With the meter he's learned where to set the projection for street driving, and when going to the strip. I think one disadvantage the carbs have for radical cam/street driving is there not-very-efficient ability to atomize the fuel at low intake velocities. (low idle)
So if you're kind of a techno-head, the projection might be kind of cool to mess with!

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1968 Mustang,Clevor,C4
1969 Torino 351C 4spd
1978 F150 460 C6
1978 F150 351W C6

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horseballz
Gearhead

Posts: 294
From: LasVegas,NV
Registered: Dec 99

posted 01-20-2001 11:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for horseballz   Click Here to Email horseballz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rustang,
Let me get this straight. When you say your buddy has the bare bones Pro-Jection without the software stuff, do you mean that it needs no computer or sensors that modern EFI needs? When I saw on the Holley web site that it was called an analog system I assumed that they meant no computer, but they gave very little other info and I'm just trying to track down the facts.
?????????????????
horseballz

[This message has been edited by horseballz (edited 01-20-2001).]

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 348
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-20-2001 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, being the previous owner of a pro-jection car in the past I guess I can speak on this. The first car I ever really attempted to make fast was a 1983 trans-am. It had a turd 305 and a 5 spd with 3.73's from the factory. I did all the motor work (bigger cam, ported heads, valves, full exhaust, etc) and topped it off with a holley 600cfm at first. It performed rather well but had a hard time getting it to run good 100% of the time as this was also my daily driver (hard starts, bad cold idle, etc...) I figured most of my headaches were fuel related so I invested in the 700 cfm Pro-Jection 4D (non laptop vestion). I must tell you it made a HUGE difference in the performance and drivability of that car. throttle response was instant, starts were flawless even in artic conditions. Ran just like a modern TBI car. As for power, the car was much more powerful and had a noticable difference in torque (could break the tires loose in 2nd just by punching it). Please dont get me wrong, this car was by no means a rocketship but for an everyday driver it was a perfect setup. My hotrod now days is a 71 Mach with a 351C and an 850DP. Bottom line, If you are looking to build a streetable engine that wont give you any problems in whatever weather conditions you throw at it, the Pro-Jection is a very nice piece ($1200 worth of nice? I dont think so looking back) But as for an all out hotrod, nothing beats an old school Holley

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66 coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 235
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Nov 99

posted 01-20-2001 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 66 coupe   Click Here to Email 66 coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let me toss in my .02 cents.

I used to own a 66 Fastback 302/T5 which I equipped with the analog Holley 670 2bbl TBI. These are very rudimentary analog systems and they only require three inputs; coolant temp, throttle postion, and rpm. It was cutting edge just a few years ago!

My experience was actually pretty good. Easy starts, decent fuel mileage, crisp throttle response.

The only real failing the system had was the the lack of other inputs like manifold vacuum, air inlet temp, and exhaust gas oxygen (EGO). Because it lacked these, it was unable to respond automatically to any severe changes in climate.

Outside air temp changes, big changes in humidity, or sometimes even changes in brands of fuel would cause me to have to retune the ECU slightly to compensate. Fortunately that was fairly easy from under the glovebox.

If I were to do it over (and someday I will), I'd spend the money on a more sophisticated system like an SDS or Electromotive or try to hook up a Ford factory 5.0 system.

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Jack Collins
'66 coupe 250/AOD
Crossflow!
Click here to visit the Mustang Six website!

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27660
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-23-2001 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Holley Street Avenger 670 CFM 4150 series. As an egocentric expert who has a carburated and two EFI race cars, I would by far recomend the Holley Carb vs the EFI system to a lay or novice installer. I also agree with Jack, that the enrty level Holley system lacks the sophistication to realize full potential performance. Lifetime warrantee on the carb also my friends.

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Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 6234
From: British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-28-2003 01:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TTT

I just had to do it, it was the very last one.

JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
M&M #1710
MyPhotoPage
MY TRUCK

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