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Author
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Topic: The Bullitt Mustang (again!).
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-10-2000 07:55 AM
I have received the following eMail:
Deke,
Considering how thoroughly you've looked into the Bullitt legend, I'm
surprised you haven't heard about my article from the April, 1990, issue
of Mustangs Illustrated, in which I located the remaining car.
I've posted the article on my personal website at www.bradbowling.com.
Please take a look and I think you can rest happy knowing that Mustang
#8R02S125559 is alive and well on the East Coast, even if the current
owner has sworn me to keep his name out of any articles I might write on
the subject.
I sound like a quack, I realize, but read the article and I believe
you'll see that I have located the real McCoy (or McQueen, as it were).
I know Steve's son Chad and have talked to him at length about the car.
He believes the car I've found and documented is the one his father
drove in the movie.
Feel free to link to my site from yours if you'd like to have visitors
read my article.
Keeping the legend alive,
Brad Bowling
[email protected]
the only trouble is, there really isn't enough information to confirm any of the facts. Waddaya all think? [This message has been edited by deke (edited 04-10-2000).]
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georgeb
Gearhead Posts: 927
From: Solomons, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-10-2000 10:15 AM
I think it's another urban legend. The cars used in the movie were pretty well trashed at the end of filming and nobody knows for sure
(the VINs aren't in the movie credits...).I can also assure you that documentation is easier to fake than the car - I've seen beautiful fake documentation with high dollar antique guns, rare motorcycle clones
Matchless G50CSR), etc. In one case the fake documentation was done by someone prominent and believable (Frank James sold a fake "Jesse James's Colt six shooter" - Frank needed the money). A gunsmith friend who made a Colt clone for himself traded it off and years later saw it in a private high dollar gun collection fully documented as "Bat Masterson's Colt".
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-10-2000 11:22 AM
Thanx George,I'm thinking along the same lines. He mentions he knows McQueen's son amd "He believes the car I've found and documented is the one his father drove in the movie". He also cites a letter "Dec. 14, 1977" where Steve McQueen was attempting to buy the car back, etc. No copy of the letter to back up the claims. . . Can anyone check out the VIN? According to at least one source, there was only ONE GT and the other was a regular sportsroof. The badging was removed so the differences wouldn't be easy to spot....
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georgeb
Gearhead Posts: 927
From: Solomons, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-10-2000 11:39 AM
Bear in mind that an unscrupulous owner, aided by a naive writer who writes a magazine article, some claims about "Steve's son said", and a mysterious (but non-existent) letter from McQueen wanting to buy the car (what would he want with it? he liked Porsches, racing machinery, and motorcycles) all seems to me to be someone trying to create a documentation trail/image so they can sell the car to some sucker with more money than sense.
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-10-2000 06:07 PM
Deke,
I got the same (similar) e-mail off my site.Sam's O'pin..
all the 68Fb's used were crushed! Also several months ago I got a request for info on the McQueen car from Germany..seems someone over there was passing off a NJ made C code 68Fb as the "orginal" McQueen Mustang at $45,000 US...LOL [This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 04-10-2000).]
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-25-2000 05:38 PM
I'm glad to see my article from 1990 about the Bullitt Mustang has generated a bit of discussion with this group. I think that the best way for me to begin debating my side of the Bullitt story is to give a very quick history of my career, so as to give some credence to my conclusion about this controversy.
In chronological order, starting in 1987, I have been the editor of Mustang Times magazine; a board member of the Mustang Club of America; the public relations coordinator for Saleen Autosport; associate editor of Mustang Illustrated; a freelance writer/photographer for Mustang Monthly and Super Ford; an editor for three of Jerry Heasley's Mustang books; the editor of Old Cars Weekly and (currently) public relations supervisor/director of website development for Charlotte (now Lowe's) Motor Speedway in North Carolina.
I mention this list of car- and Mustang-related jobs simply to point out that I'm not a guy on a local paper who got snookered into believing that his buddy owns a rare and valuable car. (I've waded through a sea of those stories in my time.)
I do not know why the current owner of the car is so incredibly shy about bringing it to the public's attention, but I had to promise him not to reveal his name or whereabouts in exchange for getting to use the documentation I originally ran with the magazine article.
Believe me, I was skeptical about this being the real deal. During my hunt for the car in 1990, however, I turned up the original owner -- Robert Ross -- and that kicked the search into high gear. Ross was an editor at Warner Bros. when Bullitt was being made (and was still there when I spoke with him in '90). He bought the surviving Bullitt car because he wanted something sporty to drive and the price was right. He was, however, aware that Steve McQueen's history with the fastback might make it worth a few bucks later, so he wisely got a letter from Warner documenting the Mustang's history, including VIN.
From there, Ross sold the car to an unremembered buyer in New Jersey, who kept it for about 3 years, then sold it to the current owner in 1972. Owner #3 has had it locked away ever since and doesn't like to share.
Well, the whole story is in my article at www.bradbowling.com/cars/bullitt.shtml if you want to read over it carefully. It should answer a lot of concerns people have about the car's authenticity.
If you had listened in to my phone calls to Ross and Owner #3, you would realize that these people are not trying to fake a car and make some quick money from a counterfeit famous car. Owner #3 does not want to sell it or be recognized as owning it. I spoke with him 2 years ago on the phone and he restated his desire to remain anonymous, hinting that someone might try to steal it if word got out about it and he did not want to lose it.
Donald Farr, publisher of Mustangs and Fords magazine (he was the original editor of Mustang Monthly in the late '70s), read my story and looked over my documentation when he was in Charlotte last month. He believes, as does Chad McQueen, that the paperwork proves we have a match. Farr and I are trying to figure out how best to present the as-yet-unrecognized find to his readers. Coincidentally, the Petersen Museum in California has contacted me twice to try to get the Bullitt car for a special display. I'm as eager as anyone to put this issue to bed, but I'm telling you this is the real Bullitt car.
I'll be glad to answer any questions my article or posting might not have covered. I don't know how often I'll be checking this board, so perhaps you may want to write me at [email protected].
Thank you for keeping an open mind. One Bullitt car is alive and well in New Jersey.
Brad
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: AUG 99
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posted 04-25-2000 06:32 PM
Brad,
Welcome to Mustangsandmore.com. Glad to have You here. Great Post and story. I'm sure that this subject will be a very HOT TOPIC until the Bullitt Mustang does come to light or display. Sounds very similar to the "W" Code Ford 427 Mustang Engine debate, that has been an on-again-off-again affair. Again, Welcome to Mustangsandmore.com.Dave & Terri ------------------
66 Bench Coupe (Anna Belle)
65 "A" Code w/4 Speed (Poni)
66 "C" Code Coupe (Sally)
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-25-2000 07:35 PM
Brad,
1st welcome to mustangsandmore and I thank you for joining and stopping by,I hope you become a regular with your visits.Your references speak for themselves and I'm Familiar with your work with MCA and other ventures and I do respect your position on the McQueen Mustang. Now on to the website you posted. I did visit and read the information given,however outside of a VIN number it reads like a He said They said..no offence please..as at face value it proves little except there a 68 Fastback "S" code floating around with a San Jose build..as far as the letter there's no proof given except ones word (a scanned copy would be nice)...again please do not take offence... I'm I a hard sell, yea! In the recent past I was presented the #3 AC Cobra (with a 260 cid in it) owned by Carroll Shelby now owned by a local...I was very impressed when shown full documention on ownership from Mr.Shelby to present in the form of State registrations/Bill of Sales/Transfere of Title/Build Information, ect all intact with notations and remarks. It would take this to convince me the McQueen Mustang is still around..short of Steve raising from the Dead and telling me. I'd like to see a Marti Report on this VIN.. Steve would you mind asking Kevin if he would be willing to post some info on this VIN if possible?
( if so I'll go get it if needed) It would be interesting to note the build date vs date sold compared to start of production date of the movie. The reason for this is my 68Fb was built in July 68 but was sold to the 1st owner in Nov 68 at a dealership in Norfolk Va. Respectfully with regards,
Sam Smith
MCA#39406 www.mustangs68.com
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-25-2000 07:50 PM
Welcome, Brad. We are honored to have you among us.Your story is very interesting. I must say you have me convinced that you found the real deal. I wish this guy could be convinced to share this car with the world. Boy, first Kevin Marti and now Brad Bowling... We are getting some pretty illustrious members! ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: DEC 99
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posted 04-25-2000 09:45 PM
yeah ...  welcome Brad...i recall that story in Mustangs Illustrated...wow 10 years already! sheesh time flies  all too many cars are owned by paranoids who are afraid to use them... thats what museums are for... it would sure clear up the issue of fakes.
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georgeb
Gearhead Posts: 927
From: Solomons, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-26-2000 10:27 AM
Tell you what. Have a CSI team go over the car and if they can find one of McQueen's fingerprints or some of his hair in the carpeting it MIGHT be more believable.Who cares what the editor of this or that magazine THINKS? How about documentation,
like a dated studio lease or purchase order for the car that lists VIN. People believe WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE. That's why con artists thrive.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 10:33 AM
Welcome to M&M Brad  ! I guess we all dodged a "Bullit" on this one. lol  Alex------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator
Fleet of FoMoCo's too long to list!
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 11:05 AM
George and Sam;I think if a bit of documentation were produced, you still wouldn't believe it. Documents can be forged, you know. So if you get real technical, there is NO way to prove this car is real. ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-26-2000 11:41 AM
Thank y'all very much for the warm reception.
Listen, things are heating up on this Bullitt car story. I just (this morning) got an e-mail from Donald Farr, publisher of Mustangs and Fords. Here is the message in its entirety, word for word. It is a correspondence between Farr and Kevin Marti:"Hello Kevin,
As you might guess, I have another request for some research. This one is
pretty interesting. An old friend of mine, Brad Bowling, who formerly worked
with Saleen, the Mustang Club of America, and Mustang Illustrated, has
tracked down what appears to be one of the original 68 Mustang fastbacks used
in the movie Bullitt. [Farr then passes along an e-mail I sent him earlier with all pertinent info about the car] Donald,
This looks like a winner. It was ordered under a special Ford category known
as "Civic and Government Affairs Vehicles." It was shipped to the same Ford
Motor Company address as the 69 Cougar used in the James Bond movie, "On Her
Majesty's Secret Service." Should I mention that an identical car was also
ordered with the serial number one digit earlier than this one?! Let me know
if I can help in any other way.
Kevin" The same VIN (as referred to above), 8R02S125559, is given in the letter from Warner Bros. to the car's original owner, Bob Ross. It appears on Ross' original registration card, dated Dec. 14, 1968. It appears on a 1978 New Jersey title (which, I believe, is the last time the car was licensed or driven on the street). Copies of all of these documents have been in my possession since 1990, when I wrote the first article.
If this guy who I believe is the current owner is actually pulling a scam on all of us, it is the most patient, diabolical and intriguing con of the 20th Century because it would mean that he forged all of the documents a good old car owner would collect, then sat around waiting for me to locate him (in 1990), then sat quietly for the last 10 years hoping I would get him some more publicity and he could sell his fake car -- all the while doing everything in his power to keep from talking to me, like never returning my phone calls. I don't know, sounds like a really roundabout way to make a "fast" buck.
I would also like to say that I have no problem with those who don't believe that this is the real Bullitt car. I don't take offense at all and I welcome any questions that might shed more light on this case.
As a journalist, I read everything in the newspapers and watch everything on TV through a thick filter of skepticism. Conversely, it's why I thoroughly research anything I write about and don't put anything on paper unless I've exhausted all other possible conclusions.
Here's another update for you. The Petersen Museum is very, very interested in bringing the Bullitt car into the light of day and displaying it this year. Chad McQueen is also personally very interested in making this happen. I'm working with both parties to put together a deal that will give the Bullitt car owner the privacy he desires, while giving the public what it wants.
------------------
Brad Bowling
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 11:51 AM
That is very convincing, Brad. I agree that the present owner elusiveness is a strong argument for this being the real deal. This is all very interesting, thanks for sharing this. I can't wait to hear more!
------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 12:31 PM
Maybe I've "seen to many orginal McQueen Mustangs" and GT/CS with NJ builds..LOL...How about the Warranty Plate info and the sold date and Production Date Started (movie)..this would go a long way to prove the timeline of this Mustang..Kevin has this info..
Date built/date sold and as far as date priduction started ..HEY DEKE!! Hey no doubt it has merit as an Orginal,I'm on ya'lls side just I'm OLD OK !!
(an I don't bid at e-bay either )
sam
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: DEC 99
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posted 04-26-2000 01:51 PM
sounds convincing enough for me! Brad's work seems to be very thorough and i sure admire that...i read enough magazines (actually WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many magazines) to have seen my fair share of "new" articles re-hashing old misguided info from the 70's about solid lifter ,forged piston,4 bolt main 428 Cobra Jets ...somebody just copies off an old mistake-riddled (or typo=429?) Ford press release.
I love reading stuff like Brad's ..actual true reportage ...maybe the 427 mystery has enough merit for a feature??
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-26-2000 02:10 PM
I'll try to get some production info on Bullitt this week.Should be interesting. Welcome Brad. We are a skeptical lot, but would really like to hear that at least the one Bullitt Mustang is alive and well....
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georgeb
Gearhead Posts: 927
From: Solomons, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-26-2000 02:14 PM
By the way, cars used for the sort of scenes shot in "Bullitt" usually had extensive weld on chassis reinforcement, different springs, shocks, etc. Does the purported McQueenmobile sport any or all of the above?
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-26-2000 03:26 PM
Thanks for the comments.
As far as the bracketry is concerned, here is what I know about my mystery car in New Jersey. This is information I received from Bill Norton (owner of Valley Ford Mustang in North Hollywood and a friend of original owner -- Bill drove the car a few times), Robert Ross (first owner) and Owner #3 (current owner).
The car in question was missing its carpeting and soundproofing, both while in California in its early days and through 1990 when I asked Owner #3 about it. This was to facilitate some of the "real life" sound recordings that were made on a race track of the car accelerating, skidding, shifting through the gears, etc.
Brackets remain in place under the front bumper for what we have to assume was a camera mount.
Owner #3 tells me that the Mustang's steering wheel had been replaced by an aftermarket unit (I don't know when this was done because it appears stock in the movie) and the shifter is aftermarket (which may have been the case in the movie -- who could say from watching it?).
As far as those beautiful Torq Thrust wheels, Owner #3 assures me they are still in place as well.
As we've discussed, any documentation can be faked, especially nowadays through computer work, but I will be scanning and loading what paperwork I have on the car from Owner #1 and #3 onto my website at http://www.bradbowling.com sometime today or tomorrow.
I realize that this won't prove anything, but I think my fellow Bullitt fans will be thrilled to read McQueen's own words as he tried to buy the car from the owner in 1977. I will, of course, be removing any info that might give away the current owner's ID or location.
Take a look.
Oh, and I wanted to respond to an earlier comment from georgeb concerning McQueen's tastes in automobiles. Not only was Steve into just about anything with wheels, no matter the price or rarity, but there is a one-hour documentary on his life that is called (I'm going from memory here, but I could probably locate the exact title if pressed to) Steve McQueen: Man on the Edge. I taped it back in '87 or '88 off of public television and I see it show up every now and then, usually after midnight. Anyway, there is a still photograph that the cameraman pans across of Steve, his first wife and about six or seven cars (all of which we are led to believe are his from the voice-over). The last car in the lineup -- and we only get to see from the C-pillar back -- is most definitely a '67 or '68 Mustang coupe (not fastback, don't get excited) wearing a kicked-up Shelby GT-350/500-style spoiler. It could be a GT/CS, but is definitely a Mustang notchback of some variety.
If you would like to see more footage of the Bullitt cars, buy the DVD, which includes the awesome pre-publicity Making of Bullitt film. I have to admit I was a little disappointed that we don't ever see a shot with both Chargers and both Mustangs. I'm not sure such a photo or film exists.
I saw this Making of Bullitt film when I was just 5 years old when it appeared after The Tonight Show on a Friday night in 1968. Seeing that footage is what led me to the obsessive behavior I have toward cars in general and the Bullitt car specifically.
Thanks for not complaining that my messages are 10 times longer than anyone else's.
Brad
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 04:29 PM
Brad,
Your a writer, we understand the length As stated before I would like to see the following:
(if you'll note the time posted I was late to return to work from lunch..Hey I'm the BOSS!!!) 1) build date(I think it was mention somewhere)
2) release date by Ford
3) Date sold to Production Company
4) date Production started on the movie
5)Date end Production
(and a thanks to Deke)
6) date sold by Prouction Company
(which I assume will be on or about 12/14/68) The Problem I have with the documentation is lack of documents..Brad I want to thank you for now making these public. I for one would like to see this Icon of Ford Mustangs presented at the 40th Show ,if we can convince to current owner we all respect and cherish this Mustang maybe he'll show it...Brad if at all possible contact him or others and ask him to view this thread.
And with all this new info which can be generated by Kevin Marti..will see another write-up.. with documents also?
sam
(thats SAM one "S", one "A" and one "M")
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-26-2000 05:45 PM
Hey, this will be a rare short posting from spedway.
I have now placed the documentation online that has been in my files since 1990 concerning the Bullitt car's ownership. Of course, I have blotted out information such as the address of the original owner, Robert Ross, and the name and address of Owner #3.
Again, I stress that this paperwork proves nothing beyond a shadow of doubt, but it's for those of you who would like a glimpse of the legend. "Touch the hem of the garment" so to speak.
As for the other questions of movie production schedules, Ford's delivery date, etc., it sounds like we have a few eager sleuths in this group that I would love to hand those chores to. I'm going to be incredibly with our Coca-Cola 600 from now until Memorial Day.
Any takers?------------------
Brad Bowling
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-26-2000 05:47 PM
Whoops, in regards to my last posting (see above), I should mention that, as always, you can see any updates to my Bullitt story at http://www.bradbowling.com. ------------------
Brad Bowling
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 06:01 PM
Tickets?
Did I hear Tickets..LOL!!!hello Brad..I will view the posting..and as soon as I return from my Mother home will e-mail Kevin and see if he will stop by and give us some info...Kevin is #1 in my book
sam
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 06:51 PM
I've already e-mailed Kevin, but give him a gingle too. He'll like feeling wanted! lol ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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Kevin Marti
Gearhead Posts: 18
From: Phoenix, AZ USA
Registered: JUL 99
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posted 04-26-2000 08:50 PM
Steve,
Thanks for asking me to respond. Unlike the 427 Mustang discussion, this one takes an interesting turn. As has been noted above, Donald Farr contacted me and I checked the database for this serial number. This vehicle serial number did get built under a very special order category at Ford known as "Government and Civic Affairs Vehicles." And there are two identical cars that were ordered, both with the GT package, so that story about one being different than the other is not true. I will wait until contacted by the owner to dispense more information. I, like you, don't want to help anyone turn fiction into alleged fact.Kevin Marti
Marti Auto Works www.martiauto.com
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 08:52 PM
Thanks, Kevin!------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 09:16 PM
Kevin,
I also e-mailed so THANKS from me too!!I understand the concern about the owner.
Brad,
Have you been in contact with Kevin Marti..I noticed in the above post a 3rd party..how about contacting Kevin?
Again to Kevin Marti,Brad and everyone on M&M thanks for making this an interesting post/thread,as usual we have out done ourselves !
sam [This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 04-26-2000).]
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-26-2000 10:56 PM
Kevin and all....The reason the two different mustang legend holds water is that on many of the film shots, you can see that there are no dual exhuast cut-outs on the rear valence - very evident in the "car wash" scene and in the final chase along Marina Drive as he chases the charger along the mountain twisties...
 Brad - the aftermarket steering wheel is quite evident in the film (probably a three-spoked Grant model) and I have a clip on my web site that shows the steering wheel and the wood-grained (as opposed to the camera case-style) dash treatment in the mustang. The shifter looked stock, but I'll double check soon.....
[This message has been edited by deke (edited 04-26-2000).]
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 04-26-2000 11:14 PM
http://people.freenet.de/pony/barn5.htm just read. draw your own O'pin.
sam
[This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 04-26-2000).]
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: DEC 99
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posted 04-27-2000 04:28 AM
Cool stuff Brad...read all your site YIKES it's 1:30 AM already  that car in Kentucky seems to be it eh? "several states away" i agree with the "don't restore it" idea too...that's what impressed me most about the JamesBond Aston Martin when it was in Vancouver years ago...it looked like a refugee from a film, authenticity may not always be pretty
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-27-2000 10:00 AM
I ran the VIN through one of the on-line decoder programs - some of the codes came out as unknown since the door plate data wasn't available in Brad's post. Here's the results based on VIN alone:
Decoded Warranty Plate
VIN - 8R02S125559
Model Year - 1968
Assembly Plant - San Jose (Milpitas, CA)
Body Serial Code - Fastback
Engine Code - 390 CID - 4V
Consecutive Unit # - 125559
Body Style - Unknown Code - recheck entry
Build Date - Unknown Code - recheck entry
Exterior Color - Special Order Paint
Interior Trim - Unknown Code - recheck entry
District Sales Office (DSO) - Unknown Code - recheck entry
Axle Ratio Unknown Code - recheck entry
Transmission Unknown Code - recheck entry
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georgeb
Gearhead Posts: 927
From: Solomons, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-27-2000 10:27 AM
The "James Bond" Aston Martin was totalled
in an accident. Saw it (crumpled mess, special effects stuff and all) at J. S. Inskip service department in New York City. This was in the '60s, and I don't remember whether it was before or after the movie premier. I had gone to their parts department to get a Weber rebuild kit for my Lancia Zagato and passed it on the way in and out. I think they mocked up a second car for promos; although I suppose the wreck could have been rebuilt (but it was in very BAD shape overall).The rumor was that the accident was caused by some assistant producer that was gonna drive it to some promo deal; they said he had a few drinkeys and thought he knew how to drive fast. By the way, the motorcycle that McQueen rode in "The Great Escape" is in a barn somewhere waiting to be discovered.
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 04-27-2000 01:34 PM
More info from the Warner Brother's on-line movie database:Release date in the US: 17 October 1968 Trivia: Trivia for
Bullitt (1968) Two Mustangs and two Dodge Chargers were used for the famous chase scene. Both Mustangs were owned by the Ford Motor Company and part of a promotional loan agreement with Warner Brothers. The cars were modified for the high-speed chase by veteran auto racer Max Balchowsky. Stunt coordinator Carey Loftin got Bud Ekins to drive the Mustang for the bulk of the stunts. Both of the Dodges were junked after the filming, as was one of the Mustangs. The other less banged-up Mustang was purchased by a WB employee after all production and post-production was completed. The car ended up in New Jersey a few years later, where Steve McQueen attempted to buy it. The owner refused to sell, and the car now sits in a barn and has not been driven in many years. Goofs: Continuity: The Mustang has no wing mirrors when parked at the carwash, but upon leaving it does. Continuity: The Mustang is shown as an automatic, yet sounds like a 4-speed manual, yet shifts up more than three times. Continuity: The same little green VW Beetle keeps showing up during the chase scene. Continuity: The Charger hits a parked car and damages the left fender, yet it is undamaged in subsequent shots. Continuity: The Charger loses three hubcaps during the chase scene, and then another three when it leaves the highway and runs into the gas station. Continuity: The Charger supposedly explodes in a gas station, yet can be seen in the background of the explosion.
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Larry Jennings
Gearhead Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-27-2000 04:31 PM
I can find the motorcycle, it was here in Redwood City for a time around 10 years ago. It was purchased by a friends brother that was into drugs and last time I saw it it was in many pieces. I don't know if it was sold again or is still in a pile at their house. Sad but true.
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 05:36 PM
I was driving the Fb last nite when Steve spoke to me..Damn near wrecked!Think this weekend I'm going to set up a little polling thingie-bob..lets see the results... Was the Bullitt Mustang found in 1990?100% sure
75%sure
50%sure
25%sure
0%sureSteve & Deke mind if I link to your sites for Info? (Added as edit 4/27/00 PM) Also Brad may I link to your info?
The Offical Bullitt Poll
brought to you by www.mustangsandmore.com www.doliver.com www.mustangs68.com Anyone who would like to link is welcomed. This should be intresting a Bullitt Poll..much better than Rusty on a pole sam [This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 04-27-2000).] [This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 04-27-2000).]
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 06:24 PM
Ok by me, buddy.------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 07:22 PM
TNX,
sam
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Farr1
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-27-2000 07:56 PM
It's amazing that all this started with a simple conversation between Brad and myself in the Lowes Motor Speedway media room last month. I think we may be on to something, thanks to Brad's relentless research and now Kevin Marti's production data. Thanks to both. (Brad, I'm a writer too and notice how short and to the point my reply is :-))
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 08:11 PM
Is this THE Donald Farr?Welcome to Mustangand more.com! I am a big fan of your writing! ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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Farr1
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-27-2000 08:20 PM
No, it's just me, a guy whose wife makes him take out the trash and cut the grass...Brad Bowling tipped me off to your site and I must say that I'm impressed, especially with the courtesy and knowledge of your forum members. In fact, I'm planning to mention Mustangsandmore.com in the Mustang & Fords news column, although, unlike the immediacy of your site, it'll take a few months to get into print. I'm jealous.
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: AUG 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 08:24 PM
Farr1,
Welcome to Mustangsandmore.com. Its great to have You here. Terri and I have several of Your Books and have read many of Your articles. Keep up the great work. Its much appreciated. We are looking forward to seeing You here more often. How about some insight on a "W" Code 427 Mustang or Shelby??? Another long topic of discussion here. Again, Welcome to Mustangsandmore.com.Dave & Terri ------------------
66 Bench Coupe (Anna Belle)
65 "A" Code w/4 Speed (Poni)
66 "C" Code Coupe (Sally)
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 08:24 PM
Sam,You have (as always) Carte Blanche. This is great stuff, everybody! Thanx to Brad Bowling for the documents that have been talked about over the years. To see them adds credence to the rumor. Also, if you read the articles copyrighted by Dave Kunz and Jim Smart, it sounds like they have spoken with Brian, as the facts they bring out are very similiar ---- Brian? Maybe the Bullitt car owner could be convinced to let the Mustang Museum "store" it where we could all see it.....
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 08:31 PM
Well thank you, Don! I would be thrilled if you gave us a mention. We have a great group of people assembled here. You'd have to search quite a while to find a bunch of people devoted to their Fords like these guys and gals.Would you like a freebee Mustangsandmore T-shirt? E-mail me at [email protected] with your address and I'll send one right out. ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 08:55 PM
Man a Southern Boy like me keeping such company Don may I also extend my welcome to you sir. Yes we have s great bunch of Folks here at M&M..if you'll read through some of the posts you'll see we go the distance for one another. I also thank you for the upcomming mention in your zine..Steve really has earn it..he works endlessly to maintain this site..thank you for make my day by doing this! sam
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travs69
Gearhead Posts: 150
From: Bethalto, IL, USA
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 09:14 PM
yeah.. and this all started as a message board on yahoo... kinda amazing isn't it..
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Farr1
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 04-27-2000 09:18 PM
Sir? Darn, you're making me sound old! Hey, weren't we talking about the Bullitt Mustang here? (From one southerner - originally SC, Florida doesn't count - to another)
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-27-2000 09:37 PM
Hey Don,
Mom and Dad didn't charge me a dime for the "manners" they gave me..LOL! Now about that Mustang..I still like those questions answered about the
build date/sold date/production start date on the Movie/End production Date..oh Deke thanks for the Release date this does show the Mustang was sold after that date. A timeline on the Movie and Fastback will go a long way to help prove it was there. sam
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Larry Jennings
Gearhead Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 04-27-2000 11:43 PM
Welcome to the nicest place on the net Mr. Farr, and don't let the mister lead you to believe your older than I. I'm just being formal cause your published . Jus for poops and giggles I've checked with Rick Feibusch. He's one of the guys at the Peterson Museum and a freind, he's gonna check out if they know anything about the Bullit car. [This message has been edited by Larry Jennings (edited 04-27-2000).]
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: DEC 99
|
posted 04-28-2000 12:18 AM
hey we got Don now too. thats pretty cool...errr "Farr" out welcome to M&M
even tho i have a Mustang ,i am one of the "More" folks! As a long time Mustang Monthly and SuperFord and Musclecar Review reader i am rather familiar with your work. Keep it up. Now lets work on getting that Jerry Heasley fella!------------------
64 Fairlane T-Boltish thing 427 HR 4speed
and another 64 the same but 428 4spd
53 F350 ramptruck 428 4spd
88 Ranger 5.0 5speed
'bout half of a 67 Mustang FB was a 390 :-(
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Larry Jennings
Gearhead Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 04-28-2000 05:54 AM
Just as a side note I have a British buddy thats been here now longer than he lived there. He made money to come to this country by buying and selling cars there. He specialized in American cars and had the chance to buy a Cougar used in Her Majestys Secret Service from the studio but looked at a 69 Mustang the same day, the Mustang turned out to be a grabber blue Boss 429 car so he passed on the Cougar. He said he almost lost controll of some body functions when he handed over $1500 dollars American for it. He says even today only a handfull of people over there know what a Boss anything is. He also says you aint lived till you get a car that'll get sideways like the Boss on the little streets of London.
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-28-2000 12:55 PM
I set-up a Poll to see how the feeling were on this subject.
www.mustangs68.com/bullitt-vote.html If you would like to link to it Please do or if just the voting buttons..click source and cut and paste the bravenet code..no need for credit to my site or me..I'm just interested in how vote will go. Oh but you can add a link to mustangsandmore if you don't have one!
sam
[This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 04-28-2000).]
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-28-2000 02:46 PM
I just cast my vote!------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 04-28-2000 03:43 PM
Since I posted the Bullitt documentation, I've been waiting for one of my fellow rabid enthusiasts to point out a very interesting coincidence concerning two bits of the paperwork.
The first owner, Robert Ross, registered the Bullitt car Dec. 14, 1968. Steve McQueen's letter to current owner (#3) is dated Dec. 14, 1977 -- exactly 9 years to the day later. Purely coincidental, of course, but I always find such things intriguing.
Another interesting date is the one on the letter from Warner Bros. It is April 16, 1970, one day before the sixth Mustang anniversary.
Means nothing, of course, just interesting.
I can't give details at this point, but there is a plan in the works involving several parties to bring the surviving Bullitt car into the light of day. When a deal is struck, I'll let everyone know that the time is close for a public debut. Should know something in a few weeks. Keep checking back to this forum and/or my website.------------------
Brad Bowling
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I65Stang
Gearhead Posts: 6792
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: JUN 99
|
posted 04-28-2000 04:18 PM
Now this is getting very interesting! I hope that you (Brad) and others can talk the owner into sharing his find with the rest of us. As others have stated a museum is a secure place and would lift the burden of keeping it safe and hidden off of the owners shoulders. I must say that everything seems to point to this being the real thing and if this owner was looking for a buck I would think he would have sold it in the early 90's when prices were setting records (although I must say it looks like we may be heading there once again). Now if right after its unveiling it goes to auction that would leave it suspect but it doesnt sound like this owner would do that. I wish I was related to the owner :>). Thanks again for the info Brad and welcome. Also another welcome to Donald Farr, I am humbled by your presence :>). And thanks again Kevin for sheding some light with the original Ford info, can always count on you when we have questions :>).------------------
Tim
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 ci w/ a Holley 2300
come.to/65mustang
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-28-2000 08:07 PM
like Sgt Friday said:
"the facts sir,just the facts"I've always wanted to use that quote somewhere !!!! Please keep us update Brad,tnx sam
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: DEC 99
|
posted 04-29-2000 04:21 AM
sorry to stray off topic...but as Larry said the English have no idea of some cars... there was a 59 T-Bird advertised in Custom Car (english HotRod type mag.) for about $1500 that said 7L V8 manual trans.
I think a Nascar spec 430/stick T-Bird may make the shipping worthwhile.
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davids68
Gearhead Posts: 251
From: Louisville, KY, United States M&M # 351
Registered: FEB 2000
|
posted 04-29-2000 06:36 AM
Don (or do you prefer Donald?),Again welcome to mustangs and more. There is no need to be jealous of info around here being immediate to the public. Any articles or info you might want to get out sooner would be welcomed in these forums. Hey Steve might even set up a special forum for you. LOL Hmmm. Now thinking about it you could post topics or questions on subjects and get feedback from our many and knowledgable members. (Wait a minute that's what goes on here anyway) Feel free to post here any time. I know our members would be happy to read anything you had to say or ask. Welcome
David
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T5owner
Gearhead Posts: 724
From: Germany
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 04-30-2000 03:02 PM
Hi out there, well I am the guy that set up the BULLITT page with Dave Kunz and Anthony Bologna under http://www.01019freenet.de/pony for all the things that Dave Kunz found out about the remaining BULLITT car. I just wanted to put you straight on one of the BULLITT replicas that was advertised in a magazine last year for 30.000 bucks. The seller was Ulrich Berberich-Martini, a very well-known GT racer, who claims to have the 57 Corvette of Steve McQueen and his original motorbike. He had an article published in the german magazine AUTO FOCUS before he advertised and sold the Mustang and let the readers believe that it was the real one. It had a CT licence plate. Pictures and text of that article will be soon on my a.m. webpage. I was glad to read Brad Bowlings comments. It seems that Brad and Dave Kunz are talking about the same car. (details on http://www.01019freenet.de/pony/barn5.htm (scroll down the page for immediate access, forget the password - it is a trap). Dave is this weekend in San Francisco for a photoshooting of his replica with the famous "Thoroughbred and Classic Car" magazine from UK. I will inform him about your conversation on this forum and I think, he will be very, very interested. he told me of the same paperwork. Thanks for the moment and hope to be back soon with Dave on this forum. Wolfgang (Never mind the interactive gimmick story on my website - it should bring some fun to barn-researchers).
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-30-2000 06:32 PM
Welcome to M&M, Wolfgang!Your site is very interesting. Thanks for posting. ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac-Lok
'72 Torino 351C 2V/C4/2.75 Open
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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Farr1
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 04-30-2000 07:14 PM
Yes, the above mentioned Bullitt site is very good. Best I've seen with some great info about the Bullitt Mustangs and the movie.As an interesting aside, I was contacted a few weeks ago by Phil Bell from our "sister" emap magazine, Classic and Thoroughbred Car, in the UK. Phil was looking for a both a 68 Mustang, in Highland Green, and a black 68 Charger for a San Fran photo shoot. Thanks to Jim Smart, who is a good friend of Dave Kunz, I was able to put Phil in touch with Dave and his Bullitt Mustang replica. Although Dave had to transport his car to San Francisco, sounds like the photo shoot is happening. Think I'll try to "borrow" a photo or two from our UK mag for Mustang & Fords.
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 04-30-2000 08:55 PM
I've heard about that "sale".A fellow from Germany e-mail me the VIN and other info..the Mustang was a NJ built car with a 302 in it.
I still have his e-mail address,maybe I'll drop him a line.Oh and welome to mustangsandmore also! Don are you planning a story ? sam [This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 04-30-2000).]
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cpmaverick
Gearhead Posts: 1669
From: Manhattan Beach, CA
Registered: JAN 2000
|
posted 04-30-2000 09:01 PM
Wow, this is a great thread, lots of big names here -
Just a thought-
If Warner Brothers had a promotional loan with Ford Motor Company for the Bullitt car, then how were they able to sell it? Seems odd..---------------
-Charlie
Visit my Maverick/Comet Site at http://www.maverickgrabber.com
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T5owner
Gearhead Posts: 724
From: Germany
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 05-01-2000 03:42 AM
Thanks for the welcome, expect to see some of this weekend photos of David Kunz BULLITT Mustang replica and (the Charger maybe) on my a.m. website by end of next week. Yes world has become a lot faster and smaller with Internet. If a reporter for emap (Mustangs only)is needed in Germany, I am here to help....(just could not resist to give it a trial, Donald). Chrom & Flammen, an european magazine is also preparing a BULLITT special next monthes, so Donald, your publications should hurry up. BULLITT mania is on.
One question: If that Ulrich Berberich-Martini here in Germany states that he has the HONDA ATC350 of Steve and his 57 Corvette, is that true? Can't believe it, but sb. stated Steves bike is still in a barn somewhere up this page.
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Larry Jennings
Gearhead Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 05-01-2000 06:12 AM
Back up the page we we're refering to the Harley from the Great Escape. I don't know real from a hot rock but the guy that had the bike had documents. Also some more info on the 69 Cougar 428 from Her Majesty's Secret Service. The car was one of three used in the film and the other 2 went to scrap, it was kept by a studio exec untill sold to a speed shop owners son in 71. The last time it was seen (74 or 5) it had been wrecked on both quarters and the top had been ripped open. My sorce looked for it last year while over for a visit and was told it had been crushed long ago.
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: AUG 99
|
posted 05-01-2000 01:02 PM
CPMaverick,
Interesting point that You brought up. Its well worth looking into.Dave & Terri ------------------
66 Bench Coupe (Anna Belle)
65 "A" Code w/4 Speed (Poni)
66 "C" Code Coupe (Sally)
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 05-01-2000 02:09 PM
As far as cpmaverick's question on the "loan" status of the Mustangs/Chargers for Bullitt:
I don't really have a good answer for that one. Since many movie cars have wound up the hands of private citizens over the years, I've never been too concerned about the wording or legal technicalities of its sale, since the paperwork clearly shows that Warner parted with it. One interesting thing that might tie into your question, however, is that on the first owner's registration card (see it by going here http://www.bradbowling.com/images/bullitt/regcard.jpg), you can see under the heading of "Date First Sold" that the registration office listed "00/00/68." Perhaps this alludes to a gray area in the whole loan/purchasing arrangement.
As to an earlier question about the "identical" Mustangs and discrepancies between the two that show up during the chase scene: Two different rear valance panels (one with cutouts for exhaust, one without) could be due to a number of factors that came into play before or during filming, such as one of the panels getting damaged and quickly replaced for filming. Knowing how many things might have caused that one panel to be changed makes me think we don't need to immediately drop the theory that the cars were not identical when ordered from Ford.
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: AUG 99
|
posted 05-01-2000 03:49 PM
Brad,
Thinking about CPMavericks post, it could be that Ford "Gave the Mustangs to the Sudio's", for promotional reason. Especialy since sales were down and the Big Block Wars being in full swing. What is better than free advertising, in a Movie, with competing car manufactures auto's. Just a thought. Dave & Terri ------------------
66 Bench Coupe (Anna Belle)
65 "A" Code w/4 Speed (Poni)
66 "C" Code Coupe (Sally)
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 05-01-2000 05:52 PM
No matter how many times I look over the Bullitt documentation, I seem to find something new I hadn't noticed before. When cpmaverick asked about the "loan" status of the car to the movie studio, I read back over the 1970 letter from Warner Bros. to "whom it may concern." Right there is the answer to your question: he bought it from Ford, not from the studio. Apparently, the studio was only verifying that the car had been used in the movie -- not saying that it had sold the Mustang to Robert Ross. I like to think that Ford gave the car a once-over inspection for safety before turning it loose on the public, but it was, after all, the swinging '60s -- not the suing '70s. They probably didn't have to think in those terms then.
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: AUG 99
|
posted 05-01-2000 06:13 PM
Brad,
Thank You for clearing that point up!!! Great find.Dave & Terri ------------------
66 Bench Coupe (Anna Belle)
65 "A" Code w/4 Speed (Poni)
66 "C" Code Coupe (Sally)
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
|
posted 05-01-2000 08:11 PM
About that letter, it was written on April 16,1970..this must have been at the 2nd owners request and the registration show a 12/14/68 date(1st owner).Brad,
Was it at the 2nd owners request?
(edit--I should add before buying the Mustang.) Odd that the 1st owner would wait that long to request a letter of proof.
Oh and Steve,
there is a way to prove this Mustang is the BULLITT Mustang...Brads close very close..but still needs to document a timeline between this Mustang (again I suggest contacting Kevin Marti) and the movie production dates along with more info about the 2nd owner these are the weak links in the Story..
Hey Guys I'm "75% sure" this is one of them...but a lot rides on this..someone sitting on a pile of money it this proves true..I don't care how "shy" they are sam
[This message has been edited by mustangs68 (edited 05-01-2000).]
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cpmaverick
Gearhead Posts: 1669
From: Manhattan Beach, CA
Registered: JAN 2000
|
posted 05-01-2000 10:12 PM
Cool, that makes sense now. I must admit that I can't find any holes in this story, but I'll keep looking ---------------
-Charlie http://www.maverickgrabber.com
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
|
posted 05-02-2000 08:04 AM
Doh!
[This message has been edited by deke (edited 05-02-2000).]
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 05-02-2000 01:08 PM
You'd think I would know the answer to this since I run several websites, but how long does a forum discussion string run before we break it off and start a newer (easier-to-load) one? Just curious.
Also, I have some NEW UPDATES to post concerning the Bullitt car. I spoke to the owner on Monday (first time since 1998 and only the third discussion we've had since 1990) and, as soon as I've dealt with other parties, will be providing most of my new information to this forum. Why not give all of it? I have to save something for the article Donald Farr has asked me to write for M&F, don't I?
Another point: I directed the current owner to my personal website and to this forum. It's possible he might visit and read some (although he's not a web nerd like the rest of us), but I'm just about positive we won't be getting input from him. The reason I mention this is to, well, remind everyone that we're dealing a regular Mustang-loving guy who just might overhear some of our comments...
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spedway
Journeyman Posts: 12
From: Charlotte, NC USA
Registered: APR 2000
|
posted 05-02-2000 01:20 PM
Other short notes:
1) As for the timeline of movie production vs. Mustang production, if Kevin Marti's information can be released concerning the delivery date of those two identical Mustangs, I'm sure he would share it with us. I don't know what arrangements he's got through Ford concerning this confidential information, but perhaps the delivery date is available to us. I still would be happy to have someone else look into the movie production schedule, since I've got a lot more detective work to produce this new article for M&F.
2) I also wondered early on about the 1970 date on the letter from Warner Bros. I will be asking the first owner when I re-interview him for my article (if he'll talk to me -- he has not been happy about how the Bullitt story has been handled) about that. I suspect that either he lost a first letter and asked Warner for a new one when selling the car in 1970 or he did not realize at first how much the documentation might add to eventual selling price of the car. As I say in my 1990 article, it's hard to imagine someone owning the Bullitt Mustang and not realizing how important it was to other people, but that's just what happened in its early years. People had the same attitude about 2- and 5-year-old Mustangs back then -- they were just used cars that didn't look quite as sleek or well-equipped as the latest Detroit (and foreign) offerings. Only after about 10 years or so did the general public starting looking favorably on these old cars. I can see the same thing happening with many dinged-up movie cars, especially if you are living in Los Angeles and see celebrities on the street every day.
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Dave Gibson
Moderator Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: AUG 99
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posted 05-02-2000 03:29 PM
Brad,
We have had threads run over a hundred plus posts. I think one of the longest was 140+ posts. Some thing to do about gears. I won't mention any names. It might embarass a fellow moderator!!! LOL  Dave & Terri ------------------
66 Bench Coupe (Anna Belle)
65 "A" Code w/4 Speed (Poni)
66 "C" Code Coupe (Sally)
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 05-02-2000 03:37 PM
OK, OK, so I've been gone racing again and missed the "BIG" event. Sorry! Belated welcome to M&M Donald Farr! Glad to see you joinig our bunch or "renegade merrymen" who transfered from another galaxie far far away. I hope you can stand a little "humor" once and a while, as we do try to have some fun around here on occasion. Not that I have anything to do with it, but "SOME" of the people around here like to play little pranks and crack jokes! It's definatly an honor to have you join us Don. Thanks Alex------------------
Alex Denysenko Co-Administrator and Moderator
Fleet of FoMoCo's too long to list!
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mustangs68
Moderator Posts: 27681
From: Hampton Va MCA#39406 M&M #12 Member Mustang Club of Tidewater
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 05-02-2000 06:04 PM
Is it me or are they talking about me..LOL..Gears=ME
Jokes=ME must be me ! Steve check the Lounge when time.
sam
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 05-03-2000 07:35 AM
....BTW, I did have Arch Campbell say hemight be be interested in doing a story if "Steve McQueen's hotrod mustang" showed up.....There is quite a bit of interest out there, not just in the Mustang and Ford community. I'm going to try some other sources for the production date. Warner Brothers weren't too helpful, but Mr. Campbell gave me a few tips ......
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T5owner
Gearhead Posts: 724
From: Germany
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 05-04-2000 01:36 AM
Hi, Dave Kunz is very busy this week, but will probably contribute himself later.Or he gets maybe better direct in contact with Brad, Donald or the Mustang Museum himself to help.
Meanwhile you might want to see 2 pictures of the former Berberich-Martini "rebuild", that he sold in Germany last year as the true car. It was of course not, as we all know. It also has PROCOMP-meters in the dash. http://www.01019freenet.de/pony/bullitd.htm.
It is not the first car on the page, but the second. (Pictures taken from AUTO FOCUS, 1998) Wolfgang[This message has been edited by T5owner (edited 05-04-2000).] [This message has been edited by T5owner (edited 05-04-2000).]
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Larry Jennings
Gearhead Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 05-04-2000 02:22 AM
Didn't McQueen have many hot rods? I was racing at the Baja 1000 many years ago and McQueen was running a Baja Boot (custom made off road vehicle by Vic Hickey) that I was told (not by him) he bought. I know very little about the man but was always under the impression he was a fellow car guy.
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deke
Gearhead Posts: 1573
From: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 05-05-2000 08:00 AM
McQueen was definitely a car guy. He raced cars as well and did really well, if I recall correctly.
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k_mesaros
Gearhead Posts: 94
From: Lakewood, WA
Registered: JUN 99
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posted 05-05-2000 12:10 PM
Somebody brought up the fact that the cars used in the movie, mostly the Mustangs so that they could keep up with the NASCAR bred Chargers, were highly modified. This question, about whether the car in question has roll-bars with camera mounts, modified suspension parts, removed carpet and sound-deadener, etc. I have seen specials about the making of Bullitt, and the Mustangs used were not even close to factory stock. These mods would have to exist still, and they would go a lot further, in my opinion, towards validation; documents can be forged, but if you get the group of engineers who modified the car back in '68 to check it out they would be able to tell in no time.
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T5owner
Gearhead Posts: 724
From: Germany
Registered: APR 2000
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posted 05-05-2000 02:12 PM
Max Balchowsky, who modifed both cars, died in 1999 according to "Thoroughbred and Classic Car magazine". Maybe there are still some mechanics out there.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: MAY 99
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posted 05-05-2000 04:20 PM
That's a good suggestion, Brad. We'll continue the Bullitt discussion here;
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001639.html ------------------
SteveLaRiviere/Administrator
'72 Mustang Sprint 351C 4V/FMX and not so puny 4.30 Trac-Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC/CD4E
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